Neumann KH 310A Review (Powered Monitor)

[staticV3]

You know, considering the absoutely tiny internal volume of this speaker (16L by Neumann's own spec) and its sealed design... how much EQ boosting is being done in the low end? I'm guessing it's quite a bit, probably as high as +10dB at points.

Does it matter?

 

[dfuller]

Does it matter?

As a matter of curiosity, yes. It's obvious they're doing a lot, given the way distortion shoots through the roof down low and the fact that they're getting F3 of 34hz out of a 16L sealed box, but I have to wonder how much.

 

[HQY]

I got questions and appreciate advices.

I have a pair of 750 subs. I understand that if I use 310a monitors, they can have DSP benefit from the 750 subs. In this case, any advantages to wait for the 310 DSP? I would use analogue connection between preamp and 750 subs. For 310a, it would be analogue connection between 750 and 310a. For 310 DSP, it could be digital connection from the 750. Both cases it's ADA conversion from preamp to the monitors, right?

I think 310 DSP will have standby/wakup function which I like, even if I am not confident based on my experience with standby/wakeup problems on KH80 and KH120II.

In summary, with dual 750, do i have to wait for the 310DSP?

 

[HQY]

I got questions and appreciate advices.

I have a pair of 750 subs. I understand that if I use 310a monitors, they can have DSP benefit from the 750 subs. In this case, any advantages to wait for the 310 DSP? I would use analogue connection between preamp and 750 subs. For 310a, it would be analogue connection between 750 and 310a. For 310 DSP, it could be digital connection from the 750. Both cases it's ADA conversion from preamp to the monitors, right?

I think 310 DSP will have standby/wakup function which I like, even if I am not confident based on my experience with standby/wakeup problems on KH80 and KH120II.

In summary, with dual 750, do i have to wait for the 310DSP?

I got my answers and bought pair of 310s.

 

[Chr1]

Congrats. Awesome speakers. I am betting that when the new version eventually comes out there will be a hefty price hike without massive objective performance improvements. Don't need built in DSP and confident that the current KH310A has been shown to be extremely reliable. Reckon new products are always a gamble re reliability.
My 2c.

 

[HQY]

Congrats. Awesome speakers. I am betting that when the new version eventually comes out there will be a hefty price hike without objective massive performance improvements. Don't need built in DSP and confident that the current KH310A has been shown to be extremely reliable. New products are always a gamble re reliability.
My 2c.

Thank you. I upgraded from 120II and quite satisfied with the result.

 

[teashea]

For one of the workstations in my studio I have KH310a's with a KH750 sub. The KH750 provides the DSP function. The KH310's plug into the KH750. It is a very fine combination. The KH 310 II's will undoubtedly be better (louder, a very small improvement in flat frequency response, DSP, lower distortion) but will the difference be noticeable? Maybe, but probably only in a narrow range of applications. I do not know if I will upgrade or not.

 

[Verausci]

As a matter of curiosity, yes. It's obvious they're doing a lot, given the way distortion shoots through the roof down low and the fact that they're getting F3 of 34hz out of a 16L sealed box, but I have to wonder how much.

Yeah it would be interesting; anyone can make a speaker go low with a linkwitz transform.. The question for me is whether the cleaner bass (from having the cabinet sealed) makes up for the higher distortion

KH310 distortion:

Genelec 8050B distortion (as comparison):

Looks like there's only a difference of about ~16dB of THD at 40Hz though not sure how audible that difference is. But again, does the better transient response/group delay of the Neumann's sealed cabinet make up for that increased distortion?

 

[dfuller]

Looks like there's only a difference of about ~16dB of THD at 40Hz though not sure how audible that difference is. But again, does the better transient response/group delay of the Neumann's sealed cabinet make up for that increased distortion?

I will note that the higher order distortion is more concerning; it's much less masked than 2nd or even 3rd. But, more of a problem than HD is IMD. Drivers doing a lot of excursion and covering a wider band tend to have much higher IM components regardless of THD. This is somewhere the 310 has more issues; it is audible at fairly moderate levels. It will be audible as a "boxiness" or "strained" sound before it sounds distorted.

 

[setzer]

Hello, first post here. I just got a Pair of KH-310 A's after my old monitors died (Adam A7's), which I had for almost 20 years. I bought these second hand but from an owner who had them for under a year and kept them in absolutely perfect shape. My other monitoring tool is Sennheiser HD-600's which I greatly love, but have been considering getting the HD-650's.

I just want to report my findings with these. So far love them, bass is excellent. I always prefer sealed and will take the SPL hit for tighter accuracy everytime. Lows, lower mids, mids, treble, air, all seem great to me. I REALLY prefer a neutral sounding speaker, I don't like anything too hyped, which might sound ironic coming from adam's tweeters, but generally I like flat and neutral. I also have a pair of Energy RC-70's in my basement if anyone knows those speakers ? pretty neutral as well and I quite like them.

Anyways my actual question: I just can't help but feel like these is a bit of a dip in the 3.5k region on these. Am I crazy to think this ? I haven't got a sub or used any room correction yet, just lowed some general bass eq on the monitors as suggested in the documentation. But after a lot of testing and getting my ears adjusted, I have this feeling like something is missing or dipped in the upper mids, I did some gentle EQ work and found the dip I'm noticing is somewhere around 2.8-3.8k range roughly, just a a general wide gentle 3 db boost really seemed to balance it out . After looking at the review here it does look right around where the mid range drive rolls off.

Couple questions: am I crazy ? does anyone else feel anything similar at all ? I saw someone on gearspace say he thought the KH80's MK2 DSP actually had a better upper mids than the 310's because of the different crossover design in the dsp version ? is this something that might get changed in the 310 MK2's ? Maybe I bought these at a bad time ?
I seriously love them in everyway except something just feels a bit off in the upper mids.

 

[Chr1]

The dip you describe is very unlikely, unless they are damaged. The way to find out is to measure them with a UMIK-1 and REW. Everything else is guesswork unfortunately.

 

[boxerfan88]

Anyways my actual question: I just can't help but feel like these is a bit of a dip in the 3.5k region on these. Am I crazy to think this ? I haven't got a sub or used any room correction yet, just lowed some general bass eq on the monitors as suggested in the documentation. But after a lot of testing and getting my ears adjusted, I have this feeling like something is missing or dipped in the upper mids, I did some gentle EQ work and found the dip I'm noticing is somewhere around 2.8-3.8k range roughly, just a a general wide gentle 3 db boost really seemed to balance it out . After looking at the review here it does look right around where the mid range drive rolls off.

Your post got me digging into the details and my old measurement.

From Spinorama: 10-20 degrees horizontal off-axis I can see a very small dip in the range you mention

From my old records, in-room measurement, 2.3m from the speaker, I can see a small dip in the range you mentioned (refer to the cursor area)
^^ ignore the ginormous room mode

You have very good hearing! And thank you for your post. Nice to be able to align with the measurements.

.

 

[Chr1]

OK. Apologies for my previous post. I was not able to check the standard measurements shown above.

Indeed, kudos. Seems you have great ears!

 

[holdingpants01]

When I had them I always felt there's a dip in the midrange making them sound too soft, but it was lower in my case, closer to 2kHz

 

[Involver]

I’ve found them to have a softness also, but do make sure to address the positioning and room acoustics properly for the best results. Use something like REW and a measurement mic to test different options or you are just guessing.

 

[thewas]

When I had them I always felt there's a dip in the midrange making them sound too soft, but it was lower in my case, closer to 2kHz

Yes, such is also expected from the spinorama

and is mainly a result from the vertical non coincident crossover of the mid and tweeter

 

[setzer]

Thanks for the replies guys. I do actually have a UMIK-1 and REW so maybe I'll do some testing. Are all these speakers that meticulously crafted that they all have the same frequency response to this exact amount ? any chance mine perform even slightly differently than yours tested here ? or am I very likely to have the exact same curve ? That dip also looks like 1db to 1.5 db so its pretty miniscule if anything. I might end up going the KH750 + MA 1 way anyways and hopefully iron it out.

I guess I just have to test them properly to be sure..... I have to ensure its not something in my room either, but I swear its not.

My other concern with this (besides just hearing it) is I am using these for audio production, and that frequency area is right in the "pain" area thats very piercing, so if this area has a dip, naturally I'm going to have this area boosted a little bit and compensating for that to get it to sound "right", and then when played on other speakers, it might have some piercing upper highs. I mean..... I'm not sure yet if thats the case, I don't want to get ahead of myself, but I'm concerned that phenomenon might happen....

The bass and lower mids are so incredible though, I've never had anything this lush sounding before so its a real treat, even at low levels, the bass dynamics are just so clean, I'm never going to ported speakers again lol. I actually hope its some room node thats messing with the curve and not the speaker output... I just want these to be perfect.

Edit: messing with the eq again and lowering it to the 2.2k region, this also helps.... to be quite honest I am not precisely sure the exact frequency range but its DEFINITELY something in this area that feels dipped and "dim"

Your post got me digging into the details and my old measurement.

From Spinorama: 10-20 degrees horizontal off-axis I can see a very small dip in the range you mention

From my old records, in-room measurement, 2.3m from the speaker, I can see a small dip in the range you mentioned (refer to the cursor area)
^^ ignore the ginormous room mode

View attachment 427714

You have very good hearing! And thank you for your post. Nice to be able to align with the measurements.

.

 

[teashea]

Hello, first post here. I just got a Pair of KH-310 A's after my old monitors died (Adam A7's), which I had for almost 20 years. I bought these second hand but from an owner who had them for under a year and kept them in absolutely perfect shape. My other monitoring tool is Sennheiser HD-600's which I greatly love, but have been considering getting the HD-650's.

I just want to report my findings with these. So far love them, bass is excellent. I always prefer sealed and will take the SPL hit for tighter accuracy everytime. Lows, lower mids, mids, treble, air, all seem great to me. I REALLY prefer a neutral sounding speaker, I don't like anything too hyped, which might sound ironic coming from adam's tweeters, but generally I like flat and neutral. I also have a pair of Energy RC-70's in my basement if anyone knows those speakers ? pretty neutral as well and I quite like them.

Anyways my actual question: I just can't help but feel like these is a bit of a dip in the 3.5k region on these. Am I crazy to think this ? I haven't got a sub or used any room correction yet, just lowed some general bass eq on the monitors as suggested in the documentation. But after a lot of testing and getting my ears adjusted, I have this feeling like something is missing or dipped in the upper mids, I did some gentle EQ work and found the dip I'm noticing is somewhere around 2.8-3.8k range roughly, just a a general wide gentle 3 db boost really seemed to balance it out . After looking at the review here it does look right around where the mid range drive rolls off.

Couple questions: am I crazy ? does anyone else feel anything similar at all ? I saw someone on gearspace say he thought the KH80's MK2 DSP actually had a better upper mids than the 310's because of the different crossover design in the dsp version ? is this something that might get changed in the 310 MK2's ? Maybe I bought these at a bad time ?
I seriously love them in everyway except something just feels a bit off in the upper mids.

It is not a dip in the monitors. Is is probably your room or maybe you are used to a different sound that is not flat. A good number of speakers have an emphasis in that range to make them sound brighter.

 

[Chr1]

I would also add that there is unlikely to be audible variation in these monitors from new. From what I can gather, Neumann have extremely tight manufacturing quality standards with minimal tolerances in their production.

 

[setzer]

It is not a dip in the monitors. Is is probably your room or maybe you are used to a different sound that is not flat. A good number of speakers have an emphasis in that range to make them sound brighter.

Alright, I really like to hear this, I hope you are right. I've only had them for a week so its too soon to say for sure. I will have to run some tests etc to really see precisely whats going on. Its too bad there wasn't a 4th eq control in this range, if I just had a simple 1.5db+ here it would be perfect to my ears.

I would also add that there is unlikely to be audible variation in these monitors from new. From what I can gather, Neumann have extremely tight manufacturing quality standards with minimal tolerances in their production.

I really like to hear this too ! Thanks for the info. I would generally agree. I'm not exactly a wizard with this stuff, just a nerdy guy who makes music, so I haven't studied the highest level nuances of these things the way a lot of you guys have, and its also why I decided to post here. I figured they were designed essentially identical, and any tolerances for variation would be extremely tight, especially with a brand like neumann.


It is possible that the sound of this monitor might not be ideal for me, but I really really want to like them. I do love sealed and neutral and not over-hyped monitors,

Not to derail the thread but: is there other sealed monitors that you would compare to the KH310's ? say I wanted ones like this but not these.... what would be your first recommendations that come to mind ?