Neumann KH 310A Review (Powered Monitor)

[LTig]

I'd say look at the measurements and not what fan boys say.

 

[tdogzthmn]

I’m hoping to demo a pair soon to see for myself. Reading reviews and other’s experiences are helpful but its Something I need to listen to for myself to see how well it suits my tastes and needs.

I’m looking for something that will be a step up from my Mackie 824mk2’s. I quite like their grunty low end abilities after apply Dirac room correction to help tame the FR in my room.

 

[YSC]

I’m hoping to demo a pair soon to see for myself. Reading reviews and other’s experiences are helpful but its Something I need to listen to for myself to see how well it suits my tastes and needs.

I’m looking for something that will be a step up from my Mackie 824mk2’s. I quite like their grunty low end abilities after apply Dirac room correction to help tame the FR in my room.

Just my opinion, when using EQ to do room
Correction and with subs, the one with better directivity usually sounds more natural

 

[boxerfan88]

Sorry for asking noobie question... how does better directivity look like?
What should I look out for in the horizontal/veritical directivity charts?

 

[Chrise36]

You are right, cause it was in a shop i didnt check the back settings. Was not flushing red but I could clearly hear the cabinet, unpleasant feeling.

Thanks

The whole thing weights just 13kg. With a filter above 80hz should be fine.

 

[Keith_W]

Sorry for asking noobie question... how does better directivity look like?
What should I look out for in the horizontal/veritical directivity charts?

Understanding and interpreting CTA-2034 AKA Spinorama or Spin Curves

I opened up this thread because so much general information is being posted in the reviews of speaker by the experts. It is going to get hidden so I thought it should be collected in one place. I am not expert on this but I have a small opening post on the details of how each early reflection...

www.audiosciencereview.com

 

[teashea]

I don't want to get into this debate again, but: It's not the midrange and above that have trouble, at all. With subs, the Neumanns get louder than you can possibly need. So too do the ATCs. These are nearfield monitors, they are never more than maybe 1.5m away from LP. Rather, it's the low end. Considering the nearly doubled surface area of the woofer, +3dB is not exactly a great improvement. Besides that, the increased IMD from the increased excursion from the sealed alignment + higher crossover point is really what makes it sound boxy when pushed. I've experienced this firsthand, it isn't exactly subtle.

Amen. I have a pair of 310's that I use as nearfield monitors in my studio. About 1.3 meters. They are quite loud enough for my purposes. I never have them anywhere near as loud as they will go. Mixing etc at very high spl is a bad idea. It throws everything off in terms of the levels. Hearing changes at high spl levels - and not in a good way.

These are designed as nearfield studio monitors to be used as such.

 

[Elder]

Hello everyone

I have been obsessing over these KH310's lately, really like the idea of a compact sealed 3-way design and loving the measurements Amir provided (thanks!).

I'm a little concerned that I might be getting a little ahead of myself though, as my setup will force these speakers to be pretty much exactly 1m from my ears (desk setup/small room). Has anyone had a chance to listen to these at such a close distance? I imagine since it is on the very edge of Neumann's recommended minimum distance that being so close is probably not ideal....I see many of you are listening at around 1.2m and above, I'm guessing that extra 20cm makes a rather large difference when we are talking about such nearfield setups?

Any input greatly appreciated! In my area the new KH150 are the same price as the KH310 strangely enough. I recently emailed Neumann asking them about choosing between the two, but have yet to hear back.

 

[LTig]

I'd rather go for the KH310 because the distance between midrange and tweeter is shorter (than the distance between woofer and tweeter on the KH150) and I think this makes it easier to experience a point source at close distance.

 

[Bamboszek]

I'm using my KH310's at desktop setup with almost exactly 1m distance between listening spot. My desk is rather big at 183cm x 90cm but still they occupy most of the space. Stands are crucial, placing them directly on desk is easy way to completely ruin sound.

If I recall correctly @DJBonoBobo discussed this issue many times so you can check his posts.
KH150 should be better at desk due smaller size, especially in small, untreated room due to narrower directivity and build in DSP. SPL in this environment wouldn't be an issue.

However overall I'm still very happy with KH310 in that configuration too. I bought them before KH150 were announced and got much better price than today. Maybe someday I will move to bigger room with would allow proper placement.

 

[DJBonoBobo]

Hello everyone

I have been obsessing over these KH310's lately, really like the idea of a compact sealed 3-way design and loving the measurements Amir provided (thanks!).

I'm a little concerned that I might be getting a little ahead of myself though, as my setup will force these speakers to be pretty much exactly 1m from my ears (desk setup/small room). Has anyone had a chance to listen to these at such a close distance? I imagine since it is on the very edge of Neumann's recommended minimum distance that being so close is probably not ideal....I see many of you are listening at around 1.2m and above, I'm guessing that extra 20cm makes a rather large difference when we are talking about such nearfield setups?

Any input greatly appreciated! In my area the new KH150 are the same price as the KH310 strangely enough. I recently emailed Neumann asking them about choosing between the two, but have yet to hear back.

I have used my 310 in multiple distances, but it is hard to say what will work for you or not. My impressions may be just psychological, and i don't know how to tell which distance I would recommend or not. I don't know an objectice measure for that other than polar diagrams or so. My "feeling" got better with the 310 at least 1.5m away from me. In my own small room i have them at 1.8m now and i think this works well. At some point i gave up trying closer distances, but as i said, maybe it was just psychological. Of course they don't break if you have them closer. If you really want a sealed 3-way that goes down to 34Hz they are pretty much the only choice anyway.
You have to factor in the form factor that can be difficult to place. Getting a very good stereo image can be a challenge. Assuming you have a display/screen in the middle it can be hard to find a good position for the 310. You probably don't want the display blocking parts of the speaker, and personally i have never been very happy with the woofers on the outside (although there is no good reason not to try this, maybe also psychological only). I also tried a position above the screen, but i did not like them to be high and angled down either, i always liked ear height much better.
So, i think it is not impossible the 310 can work for you but if i where in your situation now i guess i would wait for the new KH120II and maybe add a subwoofer if needed. I think it will be more practical at least and i don't expect them to sound worse than the 310. I don't know, of course.

 

[thewas]

In my experience at close distances a classic multiway loudspeaker like the KH310 changes the tonality audibly at relatively small vertical head movements (a good friend of mine used to long own the KH420 and he loves listening at extreme nearfield), even more if there is a close and large horizontal reflective surface like a desk. My personal preference in that case are good coaxial loudspeakers, which I prefer over the 2-way Neumann and Genelec I used to own.

 

[Elder]

Thank you all so much for taking the time to help, this decision means a lot to me.

@LTig - Very interesting point, just so happened to be thinking about this today actually. I wonder if the 8" woofer being crossed over at 650hz has an effect on this?

Hopefully a low enough frequency to not have an obvious effect. I'm reaching here, but I'm guessing if Genelec literally cover the front of their woofers that cross over at a similar frequency in "The Ones", those frequencies might not be very directional.

@Bamboszek - This is exactly what I was hoping to hear. The distances you mention and even the size of your desk is exactly what I'll be working with. I have done some 3d sketches (to scale) and the KH310 will look pretty imposing to say the least! As long as the sound blends nicely though I don't care how it looks.

Would definitely be making some desk stands to get the area between the midrange dome and tweeter up to ear height. Might even be able to squeeze in some floorstanders behind the desk, but my current speakers measure worse using REW when I shift the listening position back too far, so think I'm stuck there.

@DJBonoBobo - I have experienced a similar type of psychological effect with the system in my living room. Large speakers up close can make you feel like something is off, even when everything is sounding great. Used to it now though, so here's hopefully that transfers to a desk setup!

Like I said above though, there is a small possibility I could move the desk back into the room a little, use floorstanding stands and get more into that 1.5m range, but I just don't think it's going to work. I'm building a bunch of 14" thick low GFR panels to go into the room though, so small chance that could help the listening position be more flexible.

My monitor stand will let it sit a nice amount behind the desk, so I would push that back to hopefully minimise any reflections. The speakers would have to be very close to the monitor though.

@thewas - I really love the idea of having coaxial speakers for this desk setup, but I just don't know if there's anything in my price range that would be suitable. I had my heart set on a pair of Genelec 8341b, but realistically I just can't afford them sadly. Went to have a listen to some KEF LS50 Wireless II's, but something just sounded off to me somehow...even though they measure great. Geithain are not really available in my country either, would cost a fortune. Could you point me in the right direction if there's others I should be checking out?

 

[boxerfan88]

Any input greatly appreciated! In my area the new KH150 are the same price as the KH310 strangely enough.

If you can get a new KH310 for the same price as a new KH150, it is a steal!

 

[Elder]

If you can get a new KH310 for the same price as a new KH150, it is a steal!

Pricing can be so strange here in Australia. Some brands are just ridiculously overpriced, while others are very competitive. Studio monitors seem to be less marked up here than general "Hi-Fi" gear.

Just checked and it turns out the KH310 is not the same price, but actually cheaper! Going to guess that's not the norm elsewhere in the world.

 

[LTig]

Just checked and it turns out the KH310 is not the same price, but actually cheaper! Going to guess that's not the norm elsewhere in the world.

Wow.

Regarding hiding the woofer behind the screen: Look at the diagrams in the review where you see horizontal and vertical directivity and the plot where you see the rough frequency response of the 3 drivers. Beaming starts around 400 Hz, but the woofer is already rolling down. I think its part of the sound can still come through when covered. If in doubt just cover at most half of the woofer.
FWIW: I own the predecessor (K&H O300D) with almost identical dimensions and behaviour. When I watch a concert BD the thick projection screen covers the woofer completely but I've never noticed anything missing.

Regarding the problem with vertical directivity at close distance: all non coax multiway speakers will show this problems, and many of them even more than the KH310. Coax speakers are the only remedy. Since the Genelec Ones are out of budget you may have a look at the Kali IN series, some are reviewed here.

 

[thewas]

@thewas - I really love the idea of having coaxial speakers for this desk setup, but I just don't know if there's anything in my price range that would be suitable. I had my heart set on a pair of Genelec 8341b, but realistically I just can't afford them sadly. Went to have a listen to some KEF LS50 Wireless II's, but something just sounded off to me somehow...even though they measure great. Geithain are not really available in my country either, would cost a fortune. Could you point me in the right direction if there's others I should be checking out?

I actually use my old LS50 after I got the Meta for my "sofa systen" with EQ and sub as my desktop system and really love their sound, the good thing is that at desktop system a powerful correction can and should be used for free. At which distance did you listen to the Wireless II? After almost 20 years of experimenting with DRC my experience is that most problems are in the bass region, for example often the mids and highs sound not balanced with loudspeakers with smooth anechoic measurements but the reason are typical dips in the modal region.

 

[teashea]

I'm using my KH310's at desktop setup with almost exactly 1m distance between listening spot. My desk is rather big at 183cm x 90cm but still they occupy most of the space. Stands are crucial, placing them directly on desk is easy way to completely ruin sound.

If I recall correctly @DJBonoBobo discussed this issue many times so you can check his posts.
KH150 should be better at desk due smaller size, especially in small, untreated room due to narrower directivity and build in DSP. SPL in this environment wouldn't be an issue.

However overall I'm still very happy with KH310 in that configuration too. I bought them before KH150 were announced and got much better price than today. Maybe someday I will move to bigger room with would allow proper placement.

I have my KH310's on stands but saying that monitors directly on a desk ruins the sound is false. It depends on the situation. First, it depends on the monitors. Neumann monitors do fine on a desk. Second, it depends on the desk. A cheap insubstantial desk may be a slight issue but a substantial, well built desk is not. Third, look at the dozens of photos by Neumann of their monitors. Very few are on stands. The great majority are on a desk.

If you have some scientific basis for your statement, please share it.

 

[LTig]

I have my KH310's on stands but saying that monitors directly on a desk ruins the sound is false. It depends on the situation. First, it depends on the monitors. Neumann monitors do fine on a desk. Second, it depends on the desk. A cheap insubstantial desk may be a slight issue but a substantial, well built desk is not. Third, look at the dozens of photos by Neumann of their monitors. Very few are on stands. The great majority are on a desk.

The best position of a nearfield monitor in a typical professional environment (mixing console) is not on top of the meter bridge (where the KH310 may have been designed to be placed on) but rather on stands slightly behind the meter bridge so that the path between speaker and desktop is blocked by the meter bridge. This way reflections on the desktop cannot occur which IME is one of the biggest problems to get good sound on your desktop.

 

[Soniclife]

If you have some scientific basis for your statement, please share it.

SBIR (Speaker Boundary Interference Response)