Neumann KH 150 Monitor Review

[Sokel]

hi thank you very much very important Again think about cutting a 3 way in two part ... bass + 2 way
Used only from 420Hz to 20kHz even the smaller (and cheaper) kh80 will shine
i am sure about this

I'm sure it will but to integrate a woofer to that needs some serious engineering,quality parts tailored to the cause,considerable size,precision,etc.
I would be the happiest person in the world if it was easy and cheap but practice shows otherwise,there's people in diy community struggling for years to succeed such a design and even then it's pricey and of questionable performance.

 

[danbei]

hi thank you very much very important Again think about cutting a 3 way in two part ... bass + 2 way
Used only from 420Hz to 20kHz even the smaller (and cheaper) kh80 will shine

The higher the cut off frequency the closer the drivers have to be to each other so that their contribution sum up correctly.
It is perfectly possible to use two separate boxes for low and mid/high, but note that with a cut off frequency of 420 Hz for instance, you'll basically need the boxes to be one on another (it might not be close enough).
The easiest way to have the woofer and mid-woofer close enough with that high of a cut off frequency is probably to put them in the same box.
If stereo is wanted, a consequence would be that you'll need two low boxes, as it won't be possible to have one low box close enough to each mid/high boxes.

You obviously could compromise on this point (the correct summation of each driver's contribution), the question is then: what is the bigger flaw? IMD or bad summation?

 

[dshreter]

I’d have to look at the charts, but I think you would want to cross from mains to sub below where the directivity becomes uncontrolled. If you cross above it, you end up with a directivity mismatch. A subwoofer might have accurate frequency response that goes fairly high, but they are not designed for controlled directivity.

 

[DevinCortno]

The higher the cut off frequency the closer the drivers have to be to each other so that their contribution sum up correctly.
It is perfectly possible to use two separate boxes for low and mid/high, but note that with a cut off frequency of 420 Hz for instance, you'll basically need the boxes to be one on another (it might not be close enough).
The easiest way to have the woofer and mid-woofer close enough with that high of a cut off frequency is probably to put them in the same box.
If stereo is wanted, a consequence would be that you'll need two low boxes, as it won't be possible to have one low box close enough to each mid/high boxes.

You obviously could compromise on this point (the correct summation of each driver's contribution), the question is then: what is the bigger flaw? IMD or bad summation?

The biggest flaw is something else... you got a smaller monitor specifically for its packaging, then added a giant subwoofer which - by necessity, due to the high crossover - now has to go up on your desk, co-located with the other speaker... completely defeating the point of getting the small monitor at all. Especially since, per side, the small speaker+subwoofer probably costs more than the bigger speaker

If you want to run a smaller monitor, you'll be compromising on distortion in the 80-200hz range. With Neumann, the distortion will likely be inaudible or at least non-offensive.. you have to decide if you'll be able to tolerate it. If you can't, the solution is NOT to get a subwoofer... it's to get a bigger monitor.

 

[danbei]

My last sentence lacked precision: I was comparing two situations in which the subwoofer would be located traditionally, not on the desk, but on the floor. The only difference being the crossover frequency.
Nevertheless, I agree with your statement.

 

[gino1961]

The higher the cut off frequency the closer the drivers have to be to each other so that their contribution sum up correctly.
It is perfectly possible to use two separate boxes for low and mid/high, but note that with a cut off frequency of 420 Hz for instance, you'll basically need the boxes to be one on another (it might not be close enough).
The easiest way to have the woofer and mid-woofer close enough with that high of a cut off frequency is probably to put them in the same box.
If stereo is wanted, a consequence would be that you'll need two low boxes, as it won't be possible to have one low box close enough to each mid/high boxes.

You obviously could compromise on this point (the correct summation of each driver's contribution), the question is then: what is the bigger flaw? IMD or badthank you summation?

hi thank you very much Yes I was thinking to two subs but i see now that there are only cons and no pros
silly idea mine as often happens
i stop with ramblings

 

[gino1961]

i don't understand well what this is but i see the combination of sub plus small speakers here

Neumann Monitor Alignment Kit 3

Set composto da: Neumann MA 1, Neumann KH 750 DSP, 2 Neumann KH 80 DSP

www.thomann.de

 

[unpluggged]

Adam they usually adopt a cone mid

Do they?

ADAM Audio S Series - High End Precision Studio Monitors

ADAM Audio's new flagship reference monitoring range: advanced in-house engineering innovation combined with the latest computer aided design techniques.

www.adam-audio.com

i don't understand well what this is but i see the combination of sub plus small speakers here

This is a kit that includes a pair of KH 80, a KH 750 DSP, and an MA1 measurement microphone. You only need to add an audio interface to equalize the system to your room using Neumann's software. But even without room EQ KH 750 DSP allows to integrate your Neumann monitors and phase-correct them. Works great with smaller monitors (up to KH 120). With larger monitors, the sub's maximum SPL will become a bottleneck.

 

[Albiepalbie]

This is a review, listening tests and measurements of the Neumann KH150 DSP 2-way studio monitor (active speaker). It is on loan from the company and costs US $1,750 (each).
View attachment 248927

The design language is not changed of course. The main woofer is 6.5 inches now powered by 120 watt dedicated amplifier. While it is about 3X larger than the KH 80 DSP, it is still light and quite manageable. Here is the back panel with all the expected connections/controls:
View attachment 248928

As bad luck would have it, I yet again managed to test a Neumann speaker during colder weather here (around 56 degrees F). I kept the speaker indoor prior to testing with Klippel NFS speaker measurement system. Reference axis was on the outside top of the woofer.

Neumann KH 150 Speaker Measurements
As usual, we start with our "spin graph" of the anechoic frequency response:
View attachment 248929
I never stop being shocked when I run the computational phase of the Klippel NFS out and pops up a frequency response that is ruler flat! It is as if I am measuring a piece of electronics. There is tiniest bit of shelving down below 200 Hz and a bit of droop at the top end, neither of which Neumann sees in their measurements.

EDIT: received an overlay of Neumman measurements and mine:
View attachment 249899
This is incredibly good match! This gives me confidence in my measurements and theirs.

What is uniquely impressive here is the bass extension to incredible 39 Hz for such a small speaker! Very nice.

There is a change in directivity due to Tweeter waveguide which could have probably only been avoided if the crossover point was lower in frequency.

Early window reflections show the classic issue we see in 2-way speakers with vertical directivity not being as good:
View attachment 248930
You can help that as noted with absorption or high distance (from ceiling). Or let it be as vertical dispersion is not as important as horizontal. Predicted-far field response is still quite good:
View attachment 248931

Near-field measurements of the port and drivers shows extremely good control of internal resonances:
View attachment 248932

Most impressive bit is the very low distortion from such a compact speaker:

View attachment 248933

View attachment 248934

Once again, at 86 dBSPL we are talking THD numbers that are in domain of electronics! See how the response essentially hugs the 0 dB axis. Even at 96 dBSPL, speaker is cruising above 100 Hz. Very remarkable.

Horizontal dispersion is a bit narrower at 50 degrees (as opposed to typical 60 degrees in my other tests):
View attachment 248935
View attachment 248936

Vertical dispersion as noted has the classic hole but otherwise, straightens out nicely:

View attachment 248937


CSD waterfall shows very nice control of resonances (as we could tell from spin data):
View attachment 248938

Finally, here is the step response for fans of that:

View attachment 248939

Neumann KH150 Monitor Listening Tests
As usual, I pulled up my female vocals to test for tonality. I was immediate hit with a warm signature that I am not used to hearing with small speakers/monitors. This persisted across many tracks which I contribute to nice bass extension. That led me into thinking subbass response would be good as well. That was not the case. Much of it is filtered due to sharp drop off in response. So for that, you still need a sub or a much larger monitor.

Listening across a range of tracks was a delight. In my near-field listening, the KH 150 could get as loud as I wanted. Bass response (above sub-pass) was substantial and quite clean (unless pushed hard). Detail was excellent as were the dynamics. My reference test track Io sono metà from the album Musica Nuda was superb:

The detail in strings and the warmth from subtle bass response was to die for.

Conclusions
Even though I expect excellence from Neumann I was still pleasantly surprised by the bass extension, very low distortion and manageable weight and size of the KH 150. The price is up there to be sure but so is the performance. For that cost you get a speaker that will surprise you in how full range it plays yet it is not a giant box on sides of your desk.

It is my pleasure to recommend Neumann KH 150.

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As always, questions, comments, recommendations, etc. are welcome.

Any donations are much appreciated using: https://www.audiosciencereview.com/forum/index.php?threads/how-to-support-audio-science-review.8150/

Fantastic singing on that track

 

[gino1961]

Do they?

ADAM Audio S Series - High End Precision Studio Monitors

ADAM Audio's new flagship reference monitoring range: advanced in-house engineering innovation combined with the latest computer aided design techniques.

www.adam-audio.com

This is a kit that includes a pair of KH 80, a KH 750 DSP, and an MA1 measurement microphone. You only need to add an audio interface to equalize the system to your room using Neumann's software. But even without room EQ KH 750 DSP allows to integrate your Neumann monitors and phase-correct them. Works great with smaller monitors (up to KH 120). With larger monitors, the sub's maximum SPL will become a bottleneck.

hi thank you for the very kind and helpful advice
regarding Adam i was looking at their top monitor and i have seen some cones
but i could add Dynaudio and Focal using cone mids in 3 ways monitors

 

[Rahan]

i don't understand well what this is but i see the combination of sub plus small speakers here

Neumann Monitor Alignment Kit 3

Set composto da: Neumann MA 1, Neumann KH 750 DSP, 2 Neumann KH 80 DSP

www.thomann.de

Just nearfield with great low end

 

[NikolasA]

Can you please recommend floor speaker stands for the KH 150 to be used in a bedroom?

I now have b&w 805S that i am going to sell with their stands….

 

[Rahan]

The changement should be violent!!

 

[Ra1zel]

Just a friendly reminder again that if someone decides to go KH150 instead of KH420 bass extension and headroom is not the only thing he is losing. Good subwoofer integration can potentially bridge that gap but you still give up that midrange driver that can play extremely loud and extremely clean with superb dynamic range. KH420 holds #1 place in midrange distortion measured in speakers on ASR, nearly matching the lowest distortion transducer measured on ASR (DCA Stealth), it's an insane achievement if you really think about it for a moment.

My thought is that I can't wait for any potential successor to K+H O500C if Neumann ever decides its worth it. Keeping the old formula of 1"+3"+12" with DSP phase linearised xo but with modern sota drivers and overall execution could mean nearly perfect monitor.

 

[MrChen]

Neumann KH150 or Genelec 8341?

 

[teashea]

New video by Neumann (part 5) of the series

 

[teashea]

Neumann KH150 or Genelec 8341?

They are both very good. I chose to purchase the KH150's. I really appreciate their flat frequency response and low distortion.

 

[Pearljam5000]

Neumann KH150 or Genelec 8341?

I'd go with Genelec if i had the $$$
1. GLM is better than MA1
2. 3-way vs 2-way
3. Coaxial vs traditional
But if budget is tight than definitely KH150

 

[gino1961]

Just a friendly reminder again that if someone decides to go KH150 instead of KH420 bass extension and headroom is not the only thing he is losing. Good subwoofer integration can potentially bridge that gap but you still give up that midrange driver that can play extremely loud and extremely clean with superb dynamic range. KH420 holds #1 place in midrange distortion measured in speakers on ASR, nearly matching the lowest distortion transducer measured on ASR (DCA Stealth), it's an insane achievement if you really think about it for a moment.

My thought is that I can't wait for any potential successor to K+H O500C if Neumann ever decides its worth it. Keeping the old formula of 1"+3"+12" with DSP phase linearised xo but with modern sota drivers and overall execution could mean nearly perfect monitor.

i guess that the already exceptional performance of the kh150 in terms of low distortion could even improve with a low cut filter adequately set
small woofers are stressed by lowest frequencies
i would like to see the distortion plot at 106dB/1 meter with low cut equal to the xover point of the KH420 (i. e. 570Hz)
the difference Could be not that much
the same using even the smaller kh80
but i notice also that Genelec on the bigger monitors use 2 midrange cones
interesting point thank you very much

 

[Berlin]

New video by Neumann (part 5) of the series

I hope LH 66 will also be available in white...