Neumann KH 150 Monitor Review

[IamJF]

If it costs double , there must be a reason

Cause when you can afford the big ones and set up an Atmos system you will stick with the brand and will buy the small ones anyway. And when they are too cheap they can't be good. Maybe manufacturing in a higher wages country. Less pieces sold over all, too much overhead.
Or they just want to earn more money with less pieces sold and know their customers are ready to pay a little more to be in the cool PMC gang.

Look in the HiFi market. Technical quality is not what the price makes ...

 

[neumannenjoyer]

I expect MA1 to do magic once that arrives.

Got around to setting these up with MA1 now. Am absolutely blown away, that really did some magic. So much so that I wouldn't recommend getting these monitors at all unless you're also getting them with MA1, such is the difference.

 

[IamJF]

It really get's the monitors to the next level, even KH80s profit a lot and it's worth the price of the mic.
They should bundle the MA1 with the pair of KH150 - they are expensive enough ;-)

 

[teashea]

This PMC has similar specs to KH150 but costs double
Is it worth it?
View attachment 293649View attachment 293650

Do some research on PMC. Old school. Have not kept up with recent monitor developments. Rather like ProTools. Used to be used in expensive commercial studios but they are relying on their name now - not their technology.

 

[teashea]

I think mostly the same but obviously different. Certainly many small improvements with few significant detractions. However, it'd be wrong not to mention the impairments. Just a touch more worse than better though squarely on the good side of bad. On the other hand, large marginal gains everywhere—specifically in a few key places overall. Dynamic consistency, in other words. Although someone else might call it an unchanging inconsistency. Or uncanny familiarity. Ultimately, but this is just a preliminary impression, roughly smooth vs. sandpapery unfrictioned is how I'd put it. And one does it a lot more than the other. Yes. Hmm.

I have KH 150's and KH120 II's. As I have posted before in ASR, I cannot tell a difference in sound quality except for bass extension.

 

[dfuller]

This PMC has similar specs to KH150 but costs double
Is it worth it?
View attachment 293649View attachment 293650

It's... different. TLs have their own set of tradeoffs. They don't ring like ports do as they aren't resonators, but they are ridiculously hard to design because they have interference dips at multiples of the TL 1/4 wavelength.

As much as Neumann makes great speakers - and they do - their port design tends to be right on the edge of being tuned to too tight of a Q, and you can see it in the frequency response. Ports behave as resonant high pass filters, and you can see the resonance in the FR. They bump right before they roll off, then have a dip above.

 

[Curvature]

I have KH 150's and KH120 II's. As I have posted before in ASR, I cannot tell a difference in sound quality except for bass extension.

I believe you. I was having some fun writing stupid things.

 

[Curvature]

It's... different. TLs have their own set of tradeoffs. They don't ring like ports do as they aren't resonators, but they are ridiculously hard to design because they have interference dips at multiples of the TL 1/4 wavelength.

Those are somewhat irrelevant considerations. Ports don't have problems beyond leaking midrange if poorly damped or producing noise if pushed to produce high output, again if poorly designed (specifically about the shape size and length of the port).

The "TLs aren't resonators" comment doesn't make sense. What else happens in a speaker? http://www.t-linespeakers.org/design/MJK-for-dummies/index.html

With both ports and TLs you are effectively seeking to extend bass response. And we know that bass is room dominated and needs to be, at a minimum, EQed. So apart from looking at relative things like output capability vs. distortion and extension (where a sub is suggested anyway), the low end of a speaker is not a good place to start.

The biggest immediately audible and useful comparisons for speakers will be in MF/HF. Keeping the room in mind, and being conservative, that means >500-1kHz if we want to be fair and not bias one speaker or the other due to the problems caused by SBIR.

The PMC has an offset tweeter, which will effectively narrow the optimum listening position and unbalance off axis response. Beyond that, the single good example of measurements we have for one of their products, which has a centered tweeter, performed very poorly:

• https://www.spinorama.org/speakers/PMC Twenty 21/ASR/index_asr.html
• https://www.audiosciencereview.com/...pmc-twenty-21-bookshelf-speaker-review.14442/

Used to be used in expensive commercial studios but they are relying on their name now - not their technology.

Definitely.

 

[dfuller]

The "TLs aren't resonators" comment doesn't make sense. What else happens in a speaker? http://www.t-linespeakers.org/design/MJK-for-dummies/index.html

I misspoke, you are correct.

That said, they don't work the same way a reflex port does, not really. Or, at least the end result is fairly different.

The PMC has an offset tweeter, which will effectively narrow the optimum listening position and unbalance off axis response. Beyond that, the single good example of measurements we have for one of their products, which has a centered tweeter, performed very poorly:

• https://www.spinorama.org/speakers/PMC Twenty 21/ASR/index_asr.html
• https://www.audiosciencereview.com/...pmc-twenty-21-bookshelf-speaker-review.14442/

I can't disagree on any of this, other than to say that the PMCs I've used from their newer line (the 6-2 and 8-2) are miles better sounding than any I've used in the past, all of which I haven't liked. They're still too bright, though that was easy ebough to tame with a shelf with the onboard DSP. I'd like to see one put on the NFS.

I think the offset tweeter thing is reflective of an old school mindset. If you forego a horn-like waveguide that e.g. Neumann uses, you can reduce the effect of diffraction by having the tweeter offset to one side of the baffle. I'm not sure I see the point with a 6.5" woofer though... The cabinet is not wide enough that I'd expect it to be an issue at any reasonable crossover point.

 

[IamJF]

It's... different. TLs have their own set of tradeoffs. They don't ring like ports do as they aren't resonators, but they are ridiculously hard to design because they have interference dips at multiples of the TL 1/4 wavelength.

Transmission lines are THE resonator! It's an open pipe with all it's resonanances - which are hard to control.
These big PMCs are great speakers but I never liked their low end in "normal" studio rooms (works great in big halls/exhibitions)

Tweeter offset can work well and is often better as dead center tweeter, even with a little difference to the left and right. Better as strong edge reflections on both sides ;-)

 

[Nana7miMyWaifu]

Can KH150 seperate out left and right speaker in network mode when using coaxial input?
Don't know if it's a bug or feature, But my two speakers can only reproduce signal from the same channel.
I have already set left and right speaker correctly in MA1.

 

[Infinit0]

I still don't know if go with the KH120II or a KH150 pairing them with a KH750DSP.
Its for listening at 2 meters at 85/90db max.
To be honest the KH120II probably will be enough and no benefit of KH150, but I don't care expending a little more just to be sure someday I need more power or I go to a bigger room to have it.
Also since we don't have measurements from KH120II yet, and we have for KH150(and they are outsanding)
I already know that its recommended to have two KH750 for a KH150 pair, but to be honest I not gonna need it at my listening levels, and again, if someday I need another KH750 I could add it... So i am not sure what should I do.

 

[boxerfan88]

So i am not sure what should I do.

Go for KH150.

I’m using KH310 in a home setup with 1 sub and it works really well. Listening distance approx 2.5m, SPL around the same as yours.

 

[teashea]

I still don't know if go with the KH120II or a KH150 pairing them with a KH750DSP.
Its for listening at 2 meters at 85/90db max.
To be honest the KH120II probably will be enough and no benefit of KH150, but I don't care expending a little more just to be sure someday I need more power or I go to a bigger room to have it.
Also since we don't have measurements from KH120II yet, and we have for KH150(and they are outsanding)
I already know that its recommended to have two KH750 for a KH150 pair, but to be honest I not gonna need it at my listening levels, and again, if someday I need another KH750 I could add it... So i am not sure what should I do.

Get the 150's

 

[IamJF]

I still don't know if go with the KH120II or a KH150 pairing them with a KH750DSP.
Its for listening at 2 meters at 85/90db max.
To be honest the KH120II probably will be enough and no benefit of KH150, but I don't care expending a little more just to be sure someday I need more power or I go to a bigger room to have it.
Also since we don't have measurements from KH120II yet, and we have for KH150(and they are outsanding)
I already know that its recommended to have two KH750 for a KH150 pair, but to be honest I not gonna need it at my listening levels, and again, if someday I need another KH750 I could add it... So i am not sure what should I do.

The 150s have a more narrow beam. If you want that - go for them.
120ii with one or 2 subs will be easy enough for your level, also in greater distance.

For home cinema use and 3m distance ... I would go for KH150 to get the recommended levels. But then you can reuse the 120ii for rear channels ;-)

 

[Markus @ Neumann]

Can KH150 seperate out left and right speaker in network mode when using coaxial input?
Don't know if it's a bug or feature, But my two speakers can only reproduce signal from the same channel.
I have already set left and right speaker correctly in MA1.

Hello,
The first time the information which channel is picked from the digital input signal is transfered into the loudspeakers is after the start of the ADAPT OUTPUT LEVEL procedure. It is not sufficient to just select them.
Best regards,

Markus

 

[Anthony LoFi]

Hi Marcus.
Its great to get the real facts from a manufacturers perspective.

 

[DJBonoBobo]

I really really (really!) do not want to spark a price discussion again, but maybe it is of interest that the price has dropped significantly (1,299 EUR for a KH150 at hoerzone.de in germany at the moment until July 16th, 120II: 799, 80: 418, 310: 1,899).

 

[IamJF]

That's actually the price I hoped for for the KH150 - sounds good!

And also shows how much they earned with early buyers ... Sony also does that in Europe, but not in USA.

Btw - 420,- for a KH80 .... that's insanely cheap for the quality you get, esp. with MA1.

 

[Klonatans]

I really really (really!) do not want to spark a price discussion again, but maybe it is of interest that the price has dropped significantly (1,299 EUR for a KH150 at hoerzone.de in germany at the moment until July 16th, 120II: 799, 80: 418, 310: 1,899).

And if you contact the store, you may get the price even lower. That's how it works in Germany.