Neumann KH 150 Monitor Review

[AnalogCircuit]

RME options are limited right now as they're about to release a new Pro line and there isn't much aftermarket either.

So, I bought the Neumann MT 48 and will arrive next week. It seems very versatile and can act as a regular USB DAC, Digital Interface, AD or DA converter and headphone amp and it seems compares favorably to ADI Pro models for the things I care about.

The confusing thing is I have 3 options to connect them:
1. Analog - XLR analog outs from MT48 to KH150's - This would rely 100% on DA conversion within the MT48
2. S/PDIF Optical w/converter - MT48 optical output to a optical-to-coaxial converter, into KH150's, using DAC inside the speakers.
3. Ethernet - Connect MT48 and speakers to a gigabit ethernet switch, would use DAC inside speakers.

Right now I'm leaning towards option 1 and believe this is how the components were designed to work together.

 

[Bamboszek]

3. Ethernet - Connect MT48 and speakers to a gigabit ethernet switch, would use DAC inside speakers.

By default KH 150 and KH 120 II doesn't support audio over ethernet.
You would need Neumann KH 120 II AES67 version which is much more expensive.

Option 1 would probably work and will be transparent, personally however I prefer to avoid unnecessary Analog - Digital - Analog conversion.

There are much cheaper and equally good devices with electrical SPDIF.

 

[markstein]

Ok, I bought a used RME ADI-2 Pro FS R BE because I can do everything my current RME ADI-2 DAC FS does, but also have digital outputs.

A very good choice!

 

[AnalogCircuit]

A very good choice!

The RME arrived with a bad channel, so I returned it, couldn't find another one for sale due to the above mentioned RME shift to the new Pro line rumored for release this year.

So I bought the Neumann MT 48 instead.

 

[Ktacos]

1. Analog - XLR analog outs from MT48 to KH150's - This would rely 100% on DA conversion within the MT48

That's personally what I would do, because it's really simple. Ethernet would be second.

You'll never hear any of the conversion in this interface or the monitors. There's no reason at all to fret about trying to avoid double DAC stages and what not. Nearly everyone with Neumann monitors is already hitting two stages of conversion and no one has ever said a thing about it. I personally find the DSP/DAC whatever combo in Neumann monitors to be completely transparent.

 

[AnalogCircuit]

That's personally what I would do, because it's really simple. Ethernet would be second.

You'll never hear any of the conversion in this interface or the monitors. There's no reason at all to fret about trying to avoid double DAC stages and what not. Nearly everyone with Neumann monitors is already hitting two stages of conversion and no one has ever said a thing about it. I personally find the DSP/DAC whatever combo in Neumann monitors to be completely transparent.

Makes sense to me. Though I can appreciate avoiding multiple conversions, Neumann literally made the MT48 to use primarily via analot output into their own monitors so it can't be that bad.

My long standing DAC is a RME ADI-2 DAC FS (amazing DAC but no digital outputs) which I will look forward to seeing if I can tell any difference between it and the Neumann MT 48.

I've got the MA1 mic now but not going to bother with calibration until the MT48 is here.

 

[Ktacos]

Neumann literally made the MT48 to use primarily via analot output into their own monitors so it can't be that bad.

Neumann didn't make the MT48, Merging Technologies did. Nuemann just has their own branded model of it. I don't think it's even doing anything special either in conjunction with their monitors.

My long standing DAC is a RME ADI-2 DAC FS (amazing DAC but no digital outputs) which I will look forward to seeing if I can tell any difference between it and the Neumann MT 48.

Well you're basically comparing completely inaudible noise and distortion artifacts vs. other completely inaudible noise and distortion lol. This is all state of the art gear for the most part.

 

[AnalogCircuit]

Neumann didn't make the MT48, Merging Technologies did. Nuemann just has their own branded model of it. I don't think it's even doing anything special either in conjunction with their monitors.

Well you're basically comparing completely inaudible noise and distortion artifacts vs. other completely inaudible noise and distortion lol. This is all state of the art gear for the most part.

Neumann and MT spent 2 years tweaking the Merging Technologies Anubis to become the MT 48. From what I've read, they are the same device at the core hardware spec level but the software and integrations with Neumann monitors like the MH150 and the MA1 mic are going to be a benefit with the Neumann vs the MT. So you are partially correct, but it's also more than just branding.

In any case, I will be running an end-to-end setup that was designed to work together by Neumann, so I think I'll have a good outcome.

 

[markstein]

The RME arrived with a bad channel, so I returned it, couldn't find another one for sale due to the above mentioned RME shift to the new Pro line rumored for release this year.

So I bought the Neumann MT 48 instead.

I understand, thank you for clarification.

With the MT48 and the KH150 (no AES67 model I guess?) I would use the ADAT optical out set to SPDIF stereo. Then, add a Toslink to coax digital converter.

It is a pity that you cannot digitally connect the KH150 to the MT48 directly. Neumann somehow has no straight line with their products - look at their new subwoofers...

 

[dasherzx]

I understand, thank you for clarification.

With the MT48 and the KH150 (no AES67 model I guess?) I would use the ADAT optical out set to SPDIF stereo. Then, add a Toslink to coax digital converter.

It is a pity that you cannot digitally connect the KH150 to the MT48 directly. Neumann somehow has no straight line with their products - look at their new subwoofers...

I use bnc to coaxial cables for the 150 to 750, fully digital that way. But optical to coaxial is a more annoying one to tackle

 

[markstein]

I use bnc to coaxial cables for the 150 to 750, fully digital that way. But optical to coaxial is a more annoying one to tackle

Exactly. Why do some Neumann speakers have digital BNC, others RCA, their interface Toslink connectors? Why not just use AES/EBU? Not understandable at least to me

 

[Breeze98]

Why not just use AES/EBU?

In the case of the MT48, it's simply the lack of space for that connector.

I use bnc to coaxial cables for the 150 to 750, fully digital that way. But optical to coaxial is a more annoying one to tackle

You can buy a simple optical to coaxial spdif converter for around 15 to 20 dollars.

https://www.amazon.co.uk/dp/B07JBWW5PB#averageCustomerReviewsAnchor

Or if connecting the MT48 to Genelec Sams, then ali-express (seller Beayeau store) sell a good optical to AES converter for around 25 dollars, which is less (or a lot less) than other variants sold in the west.

 

[markstein]

In the case of the MT48, it's simply the lack of space for that connector.




You can buy a simple optical to coaxial spdif converter for around 15 to 20 dollars.

https://www.amazon.co.uk/dp/B07JBWW5PB#averageCustomerReviewsAnchor

Or if connecting the MT48 to Genelec Sams, then ali-express (seller Beayeau store) sell a good optical to AES converter for around 25 dollars, which is less (or a lot less) than other variants sold in the west.

Yes, of course you can buy adapters. But I would expect from a professional manufacturer that their products
1) can be connected to each other without requiring 3rd party adapter solutions
2) are providing industry standard I/Os

The MT48 BTW is no Neumann development, just a rebatched hardware from another manufacturer. Not meaning that it is a bad device of course.

Genelec OTOH has a much more logical product line IMO.

 

[Breeze98]

Yes, of course you can buy adapters. But I would expect from a professional manufacturer that their products

You are not the only one to make that criticism but in rebadging the Merging Anubis and adding the very useful USB input, Neumann clearly had space restrictions. Even RME use a rather unsightly (just imo) breakout cable on their digital output ADI models due to lack of space. At least until the new models are released perhaps.


Agreed, but even with their AES inputs, they may well require a Neutrik BNC to AES converter (or special cable) in many set ups. Or even a DDC instead. So converters or adapters can be difficult to avoid entirely.

Genelec OTOH has a much more logical product line IMO.

 

[dasherzx]

In the case of the MT48, it's simply the lack of space for that connector.




You can buy a simple optical to coaxial spdif converter for around 15 to 20 dollars.

https://www.amazon.co.uk/dp/B07JBWW5PB#averageCustomerReviewsAnchor

Or if connecting the MT48 to Genelec Sams, then ali-express (seller Beayeau store) sell a good optical to AES converter for around 25 dollars, which is less (or a lot less) than other variants sold in the west.

I’ve bought something else from the seller before, not on aliexpress but from taobao. They have the same listing image. Has the converter been reviewed or measured anywhere before? I’m just asking since you mentioned that it’s good. I’m on the fence on purchasing a minidsp shd studio just for the aes output or a flex digital with such a converter.

 

[Breeze98]

Has the converter been reviewed or measured anywhere before?

Sorry no idea but it would be interesting to know. It sounds fine subjectively FWIW..

 

[IamJF]

Nearly everyone with Neumann monitors is already hitting two stages of conversion and no one has ever said a thing about it.

Many people use the digital input. It only has benefits - why not use it?

I personally find the DSP/DAC whatever combo in Neumann monitors to be completely transparent.

How did you test that?

While the Neumann interface is a great piece it doesn't fit the speakers well in terms of connectivity. You can buy something way cheaper when using the digital output - that's one of the nice things about it!
Or just get a babyface when optical output is ok (with cheap optical/spdif transmitter - I also have and use one without problems)

 

[Ktacos]

How did you test that?

Not sure how you test that other than just use the speaker and see if you hear any noticeable degradation. I've mixed on the KH stuff for like 5-6 years now and I can't say I've ever heard anything but super accurate reproduction.

Many people use the digital input. It only has benefits - why not use it?

Benefits on paper but not much in practice. You're getting exceptional audio quality no matter what input you use and you're not going to tell a difference between them. You could hook up the digital and have a sneaky person swap it out for the xlr and you'd be none the wiser.

 

[dfuller]

Many people use the digital input. It only has benefits - why not use it?

Mostly because finding digital-only monitor controllers is difficult and expensive. There aren't a ton of options out there that don't cost a fortune.

 

[aschen]

Ive been using XLR analog to my 150s. I tried connecting them to my minidsp SHD with the coax spdf using regular RCAs it didn't work, but I didn't mess with it much. Likely no real benefit right?