Neumann KH 150 Monitor Review

[dsnyder0cnn]

How would this compare at 3m to hypex ncx500 or nc502p with a bookshelf speaker of choice (eq added).

Well, like Hedd and a few other active DSP monitors, the crossovers in the KH 150 use FIR filters to linearize phase over a fairly wide range (106 Hz to 16 kHz). Traditional bookshelf speakers with passive crossovers generally can't match this level of phase accuracy. My understanding is that phase affects the rendering of harmonic structure needed to accurately reproduce the tone or timbre of musical instruments.

 

[dsnyder0cnn]

Asymmetric is better

It can be helpful below the room's transition frequency, but the asymmetry in the reverberant field makes it harder to achieve a balanced soundstage unless the side walls are quite far away (sadly, not the case in my room).

 

[Frank Dernie]

My understanding is that phase affects the rendering of harmonic structure needed to accurately reproduce the tone or timbre of musical instruments.

I have played around from time to time with the audible effects of phase over the last 40 years or so.
Most of the time the speakers were not phase coherent anyway and deliberate considerable phase distortion was completely inaudible.

With DSP corrected speakers where accurate phase is achievable my experience was that if a recording was simply recorded - like the older ones with 2 or 3 microphones - accurate phase gave a markedly superior stereo image.

On modern tracks mixed from multiple microphones I again found the difference made by phase correction inaudible.

I never noticed a phase influence on timbre.

FWIW

 

[Karmacoma]

Well, like Hedd and a few other active DSP monitors, the crossovers in the KH 150 use FIR filters to linearize phase over a fairly wide range (106 Hz to 16 kHz). Traditional bookshelf speakers with passive crossovers generally can't match this level of phase accuracy. My understanding is that phase affects the rendering of harmonic structure needed to accurately reproduce the tone or timbre of musical instruments.

This thread might be of interest to you, lot of knowledge being shared there.

Does Phase Distortion/Shift Matter in Audio? (no*)

A viewer of my videos and member he suggested that I do a video commenting on a video that Paul McGown did on audibility of phase shifts. Here is Paul's video which was really about a different question (why we need wideband amplifiers) but turned it into phase being an audible problem: Here...

www.audiosciencereview.com

Most blind testing experiences looking into phase distorsion/shift audibility seem to conclude it's inaudible, except in certain extreme conditions.
However, it could be usefull for speaker integration in a system, I believe that's what Neumann engineers had in mind but I don't know for sure. I always wondered, would be nice to ask those roaming around ASR at some point.

 

[songOVERsound]

Wow those 96dB distortion results are seriously impressive for a 6.5" woofer. It's Purifi woofer level but without that weird resonance AND even better sub-100hz performance.

Spoiler

@MZKM's Preference Score Calculation Here for those who want it.

Wow those 96dB distortion results are seriously impressive for a 6.5" woofer. It's Purifi woofer level but without that weird resonance AND even better sub-100hz performance.

Spoiler

@MZKM's Preference Score Calculation Here for those who want it.

Is there follow up to this? Speaker cabinet resonance maybe?

 

[Sancus]

Is there follow up to this? Speaker cabinet resonance maybe?

The resonance is in non-KH150 speakers using the Purifi woofer, and I don't think it was a cabinet resonance, no. But, that post was a long time ago. You can find more by searching around for Purifi resonance 400hz or 380hz. There was some chatter about it in this thread among other places.

 

[Pritaudio]

but still, it could be better in a 3 way implementation.

can someone advise me on the combination of kh120 ii and one kh750 sub vs kh150 alone.
it costs about the same. listening at about 3m at moderate volume, maybe loud at times too.
how would they compare in this case with a 4m by 5m room.
will the sub alleviate some bass from the 5.25 inch driver, and will the choice of sub placement be an advantage at this listening distance. even with nuemans unreliable dsp software as I won't be using ma1 microphone. I have minidsp umik1 with REW for eq in digital domain beforehand.
I intend to listen in the lounge and won't be doing any mastering/recording as such.
much appreciated.

 

[Pearljam5000]

Am I the only one who didn't understand what's going on with this amp ?

 

[songOVERsound]

Am I the only one who didn't understand what's going on with this amp ?

View attachment 376391

Interesting. Seems similar to what PSI does with their speakers. Hopefully this isn’t some sort of “dynamic eq” trickery that Bluetooth speakers use. I doubt Neumann would do that though

 

[Ktacos]

That really just sounds like marketing fluff to me. I'd love to be proven wrong.

 

[Pritaudio]

Does the kh120 ii have this too.
It was released after the kh150.

 

[Pearljam5000]

Does the kh120 ii have this too.
It was released after the kh150.

I think they have the same amp but not sure

 

[HQY]

I read somewhere they use same amp.

I think they have the same amp but not sure

I read somewhere they use same amp.

 

[Count Arthur]

Don't they use the TI TPA3255, or perhaps something similar?

The internal boards look to have some similarities to other TPA based amps, albeit both the amp and power supply sections are on a single PCB, and both the power supply and amp sections make full use of both sides of the PCB: https://audiosciencereview.com/foru...mann-kh-150-monitor-review.39922/post-1773145

 

[frank.de]

New location in my house with self made stands :

 

[teashea]

I think they have the same amp but not sure

The KH 150 and KH 120 II use the same amplifiers - each monitor has two amplifiers - 145 watts and 100 watts.

 

[teashea]

New location in my house with self made stands : View attachment 381031View attachment 381032View attachment 381033View attachment 381034View attachment 381035

Very nearfield - very good.

 

[teashea]

I prefer a large speaker in a large room unless that is not possible.

I use both pairs of the KH 150's in my studio at 1 to 1.2 meters nearfield. While they are fine at 2 1/2 meters, these are really designed by Neumann to be optimal at nearfield distances. For midfield pleasure listening I would choose different speakers.

 

[teashea]

Its almost impossible the get results as good as this as a DIY:er.

You need a proper loudspeakerstand for these outstanding loudspeaker if you use them in a livingroom. Putting them directly on a tv bench and those fine measurement results will fly away. I would get a stand about 60-63 cm in hight . I use customdesign RS 304 for my 8340.
With a proper stand you can easily find the best loudspeaker position in the room.

So true.

 

[teashea]

It’s totally possible, but NOT if you are new to DIY.

If you DIY because you had to- you built custom speakers for decades because there was nothing you could buy ( mass produced ) that were as good; then that’s a different matter. It was done a decade ago.

Eg. Dutch & Dutch started as a DIY projects
Sigfried Linkwitz speakers started as DIY projects

In fact if you look at virtually all the speaker manufacturers they started as a garage DIYers.

Today the hardest thing for DIYers is access to low cost amplifiers on a plate with DSP and FIR and TWS and WISA and Airplay 2 and all the other buzzword compliant specs…

So, I would like to see a set of valid measurements for a DIY equal these. (not going to happen).