Need to replace 20 year old AVR

[B-Flow]

For reasons I wont get into, after 20 years of flawless service I need to replace my legendary Onkyo TX-SR805. My needs are more or less just to replace its functionality:
- We still just run 5.1 (though the ability to maybe do 7.1 would be nice)
- Needs to drive our low impedance, though decently efficient, front speakers (4ohm/90dB). The old 805 had no trouble, but I realize they dont make 'em like they used to.
- Old school THX bass management (2nd order HP, 4th order LP) would be a huge plus, though using any of the modern room corrections should mitigate this.

NO decent HiFi/AV stores anywhere within driving distance so this will be a order/ship purchase. Budget is C$2k (ish) which, interestingly, is right around what the 805 cost me when adjusted for inflation from 2006. I'm at a bit of a dead-lock though.

• Anthem MRX 540 would have been my first choice. Pushing the budget but could just swing it if it wernt for the possible fan noise issue which, if manifest, would be a deal breaker.
• Onkyo TX-NR7100. Price is right. I thought this might be a sure-fire replacement but then I read Amir's excellent review and exposé of its drop-to-eco-mode issue which is entirely unacceptable.
• Denon AVR-X3800H. Getting outside of the budget limits. Per Amir's review the amp sections seems like its up to the task of driving low impedence speakers, but the rest of the audio is sub-par apparently (or at least represents a regresion) which makes me not want to reach outside of my spending comfort.

Any thoughts on the above or alternates within the price point would be very much appreciated.

 

[EWL5]

For reasons I wont get into, after 20 years of flawless service I need to replace my legendary Onkyo TX-SR805. My needs are more or less just to replace its functionality:
- We still just run 5.1 (though the ability to maybe do 7.1 would be nice)
- Needs to drive our low impedance, though decently efficient, front speakers (4ohm/90dB). The old 805 had no trouble, but I realize they dont make 'em like they used to.
- Old school THX bass management (2nd order HP, 4th order LP) would be a huge plus, though using any of the modern room corrections should mitigate this.

NO decent HiFi/AV stores anywhere within driving distance so this will be a order/ship purchase. Budget is C$2k (ish) which, interestingly, is right around what the 805 cost me when adjusted for inflation from 2006. I'm at a bit of a dead-lock though.

• Anthem MRX 540 would have been my first choice. Pushing the budget but could just swing it if it wernt for the possible fan noise issue which, if manifest, would be a deal breaker.
• Onkyo TX-NR7100. Price is right. I thought this might be a sure-fire replacement but then I read Amir's excellent review and exposé of its drop-to-eco-mode issue which is entirely unacceptable.
• Denon AVR-X3800H. Getting outside of the budget limits. Per Amir's review the amp sections seems like its up to the task of driving low impedence speakers, but the rest of the audio is sub-par apparently (or at least represents a regresion) which makes me not want to reach outside of my spending comfort.

Any thoughts on the above or alternates within the price point would be very much appreciated.

If you're not comfortable spending money on the 3800 (it'll probably be fine but I hear you), then you should consider the RZ-70, which has often been discounted in the States.

 

[vsch]

In my view, Denon AVRs are a great option, especially because they can be used with @OCA 's excellent (and free) A1 Acoustix room-correction and subwoofer-integration tool. They also have a reputation for reliability and well designed amp sections.

If the Denon AVR-X3800H stretches the budget too much, it may be worth looking for a used X3700H/X3600H or X4700H/X4600H. Those models may be available at attractive prices and still provide strong functionality. I’d mainly check that they support all the features you need (HDMI 2.1, channel count, etc.). For what it’s worth, the 3000-series and above also support Auro-3D upmixing, which I personally like a lot for music.

The main downside compared to the X3800H generation is that you won’t have the option to upgrade to Dirac ART, which uses MIMO filtering and has been getting a lot of positive feedback. They also only support two instead of four independent subs, which may not be that important though.

That said, I’m pretty delighted with the results I get from A1 Acoustix in my modest 5.2 system, so if you’re comfortable using an external tool like that, the older Denons can still offer excellent performance and value.

Cheers and good luck!

PS [Edit]: As far as I understand, the AVR-X3800H got a bad review from @amirm because it measures objectively worse than its predecessor, which is a shame. However, it's still audibly transparent (at least to my ears), so the degradation is basically irrelevant in practice.

 

[EWL5]

PS [Edit]: As far as I understand, the AVR-X3800H got a bad review from @amirm because it measures objectively worse than its predecessor, which is a shame. However, it's still audibly transparent (at least to my ears), so the degradation is basically irrelevant in practice.

Yes, sometimes common sense can save someone a dollar or two!

 

[B-Flow]

If you're not comfortable spending money on the 3800 (it'll probably be fine but I hear you), then you should consider the RZ-70, which has often been discounted in the States.

I'm seeing a price of C$4200 on the RZ70! Doesnt go on sale for half that.....does it?

I do wonder if the general disappointment with the 3800 has more to do with comparing it to its predecessor than actual real-world experience. I could probably overlook the minutia as long as it doesn't go into orbit driving low impedance speakers (which clearly the Onkyo 7100 probably would). I'm assuming that, like any other AVR I've seen, we'd want to leave the Denon in the default 8ohm setting to get the most headroom out of it (and make sure it has enough airflow etc).

 

[EWL5]

1) RZ70 was going for as little as $1549 USD on March 2:

Onkyo TX-RZ70 11.2-Channel 8K Network A/V Receiver - 2026-01-16

Update: This popular Frontpage Deal is still available. Adorama has Onkyo TX-RZ70 11.2-Channel 8K Network A/V Receiver on sale for $2299.99 - $750.99 when you apply coupon code JHCE2491 at checkout

slickdeals.net

Worth checking your country if discounting is happening.

2) I've been using my 3800 for nearly 3 years and haven't let the "low SINAD" bother me one bit! LOL! Also, the output under a 4 ohm load in Amir's test is only slightly lower than the 4800's. This is the same 4800 that fellow member dlaloum is now using w/his hard to drive speakers using internal amps only under Dirac ART!

 

[Miker 1102]

What about the rz30? It has two independent subs, Dirac Live, and can be had in the US as low as 800 dollars. It is a mystery if it has the similar driving issues as the other onkyo/pioneer products. The rz30 came out after the 7100. I tried several iterations of that line and I was not impressed...I think you might find the build quality an issue after owning the sr805.
I bought a couple of amps to test again and am runnig the 3800 to set up for ART. I do not think most people can hear the difference between Denon ( in the same category)with or without dsp ( I have not done ART yet). I think (economically speaking) a3800 is hard to beat.
Could you find somebody in the US? I know customs is a problem as I traded and sold rock stuff ( Rush collector) witb a bunch of Canadians.
The 3800 runs hot like its predecessors and I always use a fan.

 

[Heatransfer]

For reasons I wont get into, after 20 years of flawless service I need to replace my legendary Onkyo TX-SR805. any of the modern room corrections should mitigate this.

NO decent HiFi/AV stores anywhere within driving distance so this will be a order/ship purchase. Budget is C$2k (ish) which, interestingly, is right around what the 805 cost me when adjusted for inflation from 2006. I'm at a bit of a dead-lock though.

Any thoughts on the above or alternates within the price point would be very much appreciated.

Ah, another Canuck!

Are you okay with open box, refurbished or second hand? Do you need something yesterday (sounds like it...).

If second hand is okay, keep your eyes peeled on local Facebook marketplace, Craiglist/Kijiji if it's a thing in your area, or canuckaudiomart.com.

If you're okay with open box or refurbished:
- the past few years Anthem has had a refurb sale around black Friday (35% off MSRP on refurb units, 15% off on new units)
- "open box" 3800s can be found from at least two Canadian retailers for $1800. I suspect these are not really open box, just a way to skirt MAP rules.
- wait for a periodic sale from Best Buy (blech)

 

[EWL5]

What about the rz30? It has two independent subs, Dirac Live, and can be had in the US as low as 800 dollars. It is a mystery if it has the similar driving issues as the other onkyo/pioneer products. The rz30 came out after the 7100. I tried several iterations of that line and I was not impressed...I think you might find the build quality an issue after owning the sr805.
I bought a couple of amps to test again and am runnig the 3800 to set up for ART. I do not think most people can hear the difference between Denon ( in the same category)with or without dsp ( I have not done ART yet). I think (economically speaking) a3800 is hard to beat.
Could you find somebody in the US? I know customs is a problem as I traded and sold rock stuff ( Rush collector) witb a bunch of Canadians.
The 3800 runs hot like its predecessors and I always use a fan.

As you said, we really don't know if the RZ30 suffers from the same "limp mode" issue. Chances are that it would since it shares 90-95% parts w/the 7100 and RZ50.

 

[peng]

I do wonder if the general disappointment with the 3800 has more to do with comparing it to its predecessor than actual real-world experience.

I would say it is not just "more to do....", with all to do with comparing it to its predecessors that has the much better AKM DAC, but that's if you focused on the measured SINAD of the pre outs, and I am quite sure, based on logic, that for some reason, it only managed around 87 dB in Amir's test, when I think it should do at least 90 dB based on other collaborating evidence. So, I believe that was an outlier case, and I wish someone would measure a second sample or send one to Amir.

I could probably overlook the minutia as long as it doesn't go into orbit driving low impedance speakers (which clearly the Onkyo 7100 probably would). I'm assuming that, like any other AVR I've seen, we'd want to leave the Denon in the default 8ohm setting to get the most headroom out of it (and make sure it has enough airflow etc).

Overall, you can't beat the value of the 3800, iirc, within the last two years, the X3800H had been on sale for less than C$1,500 so it you can wait, it may be worth waiting, until such sales come back.

Found it: It was last May, so less than a year ago:

[Amazon.ca] Denon AVR-X3800H $1499 - RedFlagDeals.com Forums

Amazon has the Denon AVR X3800H for $1499. Sold by Amazon as well, so Visions should be able to beat it by 15% of the difference, making it come down

forums.redflagdeals.com

Amazon has the Denon AVR X3800H for $1499. Sold by Amazon as well, so Visions should be able to beat it by 15% of the difference, making it come down to $1387 before taxes. I've been watching this AVR and it drops to $1500 every weekend, for the last couple weeks.

No idea how low it went down to in the US at around the same time. Obviously such a deal may not return, but given that it did in 2025 and was offered by Bestbuy.ca as well, there is a good chance it will return, but may be at a higher price, up to $1,799??, no one knows except surely there will be something..

 

[EWL5]

I would say it is not just "more to do....", with all to do with comparing it to its predecessors that has the much better AKM DAC, but that's if you focused on the measured SINAD of the pre outs, and I am quite sure, based on logic, that for some reason, it only managed around 87 dB in Amir's test, when I think it should do at least 90 dB based on other collaborating evidence. So, I believe that was an outlier case, and I wish someone would measure a second sample or send one to Amir.

If I'm not mistaken, weren't there more recent variants of the 3700/4700 that shipped w/the current TI PCM DACs after the AKM fire? I'd love to see those measured by Amir but seems kinda pointless now since improvements made by the ART RC in the newer x800 series will trump any perceived SINAD difference.

A used x700 model doesn't guarantee AKM DACs...

 

[peng]

If I'm not mistaken, weren't there more recent variants of the 3700/4700 that shipped w/the current TI PCM DACs after the AKM fire? I'd love to see those measured by Amir but seems kinda pointless now since improvements made by the ART RC in the newer x800 series will trump any perceived SINAD difference.

A used x700 model doesn't guarantee AKM DACs...

You are right, and that's exactly the reason I stated "its predecessors that has the much better AKM DAC", so if one went for the X4700/3700H without confirming they have the AKM (AK4458) DAC IC, they would end up with the same TI IC that has much lower SINAD spec.

I mentioned collaborating evidence, here are some examples I referred to before:

- In the past, the 3000/4000 series Denon AVR that have the AK4458 IC typically measured about the same, in fact even the X3500H managed about 95 dB SINAD at below 1.5 V.
- The 3000/4000 series, up to the present X3800H, X4800H, C50, 40, even the C70 all share the same DAC IC, opamps, and Volume control IC that are the main contributor to SINAD measured results.
- The X4800H, C40, C70 all, interesting managed >90 dB SINAD, in some cases, up to 95-96 dB (not sure how D+M did it)

So it is reasonable to expect the X3800H can do 90 dB SINAD.

Lastly, as we all know, and Amir himself has actually commented on this, that you would lose a few dB going from pre out to the power amp output. We should take a good look of the following:

How is it that the power amp output of the 3800 did only 1 dB SINAD lower than the pre out? When in all other cases, if pre out did only 87 dB, the power amp output would not, seemed never, managed any better than 80-82 dB. That, to me, makes the pre out measurement a suspect!! Or there is some anomaly about that specific dut/sample (no offence to Amir, who I respect greatly..)

Note that the Cinema 70's pre out SINAD was about 93 dB at 2 V, a significant 6 dB better than the X3800H but the power amp output only managed about 69 dB.

 

[peng]

Sorry gents, I know I have been, and likely the only one, expressing my doubt (and repeatedly to the point I know I should stop..) about the pre out SINAD of the X3800H that seems subpar. I just hope if someone finds the X3800H having the features they need and is among the few what their budget allows, try not to too quickly avoid it because of the subpar <90 dB SINAD from the one and only available review (one that included bench tests).

 

[EWL5]

Sorry gents, I know I have been, and likely the only one, expressing my doubt (and repeatedly to the point I know I should stop..) about the pre out SINAD of the X3800H that seems subpar. I just hope if someone finds the X3800H having the features they need and is among the few what their budget allows, try not to too quickly avoid it because of the subpar <90 dB SINAD from the one and only available review (one that included bench tests).

Honestly, I don't think the 3800 is selling poorly. I bought before it became ART-capable and I can probably get back what I paid for it easily (even after nearly 3 years of service). The SINAD chasers can continue to move on to something else and let the more discerning and informed among us continue to enjoy it either as is or as the cheapest pre-pro imaginable w/ART capability!

 

[Spkrdctr]

First off. I would not base your buying on the DAC. In an AVR that is not important unless it is seriously faulty. It is very easy on ASR to get caught up in DAC shopping but in reality it is not all that important. Any decent DAC will do the job. Just buy the 3800 and enjoy it. Your speakers swamp what the DAC is doing anyway. Unless you have very, very good speakers they color the sound (along with the room) far more than the DAC. So just forget about the DAC. Enjoy! Don't get into the faulty analysis paralysis......

 

[deercreekaudio]

Check out the miniDSP Flex HTx and AMP-8 at Deer Creek Audio

 

[Heatransfer]

First off. I would not base your buying on the DAC. In an AVR that is not important unless it is seriously faulty. It is very easy on ASR to get caught up in DAC shopping but in reality it is not all that important. Any decent DAC will do the job. Just buy the 3800 and enjoy it. Your speakers swamp what the DAC is doing anyway. Unless you have very, very good speakers they color the sound (along with the room) far more than the DAC. So just forget about the DAC. Enjoy! Don't get into the faulty analysis paralysis......

The emphasis on SINAD misses the forest for the trees.

Something like 6dB of noise floor isn't insignificant, but it's

A) likely inaudible, especially with program material playing
B) dwarfed by those +10 dB/ -6 dB peaks and nulls in the bass region which can be compensated to some degree by room correction, and is CLEARLY audible.

 

[B-Flow]

I want to thank everyone for weighing in. I do believe the 3800 would do just splendidly... if I could catch it on sale, which seems like a realistic goal. If it dipped below C$2K that would make the financial advisor (wife) happy. The 540 is not off the table, especially if it hit C$2K on sale (which I believe is the lowest one can hope for when not dealing face-to-face). That said, even though our current layout is "just" 5.1, spending over C$2k on something which isnt 7.1 capable feels irresponsible somehow.

The real question now is how long we can go watching movies and shows with just the built in TV speakers.

 

[peng]

I want to thank everyone for weighing in. I do believe the 3800 would do just splendidly... if I could catch it on sale, which seems like a realistic goal. If it dipped below C$2K that would make the financial advisor (wife) happy. The 540 is not off the table, especially if it hit C$2K on sale (which I believe is the lowest one can hope for when not dealing face-to-face). That said, even though our current layout is "just" 5.1, spending over C$2k on something which isnt 7.1 capable feels irresponsible somehow.

The real question now is how long we can go watching movies and shows with just the built in TV speakers.

Keep in mind the 540, if you meant the MRX540, has only 1 discrete sub out.

It is basically a 7.1 avr with only 5 power amp channel, room correction is ARC G that is okay but is not as effective as Audyssey xt32, manual tweaking post calibration is highly restricted bs Denon’s MultEQ apps, no Auro3D, no paid upgrade to DLBC and ART.

The Denon comes with the very decent XT32 and comes with an excellent paid upgrade path to DLBC/ART.

Imo the 540 competes well with the Cinema 50 but not comparable to the AVR-X3800H.

 

[Spkrdctr]

I want to thank everyone for weighing in. I do believe the 3800 would do just splendidly... if I could catch it on sale, which seems like a realistic goal. If it dipped below C$2K that would make the financial advisor (wife) happy. The 540 is not off the table, especially if it hit C$2K on sale (which I believe is the lowest one can hope for when not dealing face-to-face). That said, even though our current layout is "just" 5.1, spending over C$2k on something which isnt 7.1 capable feels irresponsible somehow.

The real question now is how long we can go watching movies and shows with just the built in TV speakers.

OMG, I feel sorry for you. I have had to that once in awhile and it is terrible. I'm hoping you can catch a sale very soon. Plus your new Denon will have a nice warranty.