Need to improve home theater dialog

[phrwn]

System is a 3.1 consisting of three Kef R3's and one KC62 connected to a Denon X3700H.

The L & R speakers are on Audio Chic R3 stands and everything else is in a BDI Corridor 8173 cabinet.

Setup with Audessy and run on Auto mode in the AVR for everything. Sound quality is good, as expected, but dialog from movies and TV is indistinct to the point where my wife is now watching everything with subtitles.

I believe the problem is that the center speaker will not fit on the top shelf of the internal center compartment (by literally a millimeter or two), so it's on the lower shelf. Audessy assigns it a +3db value, but then the sound is firing directly into a fairly deep and solid coffee table.

I think the best solution might be to replace the center with an R2c, which I understand is a worse speaker overall, but will fit on the top shelf and does apparently do its job well with dialog. For music-only playback it's irrelevant because the center isn't used.

Just wanted to cross-check with the hive mind because I opted for the R3 center over the R2c in the first place before I bought the cabinet. If this makes sense I'll post the one year old walnut R3 center in the for sale section.

 

[Chrise36]

System is a 3.1 consisting of three Kef R3's and one KC62 connected to a Denon X3700H.

The L & R speakers are on Audio Chic R3 stands and everything else is in a BDI Corridor 8173 cabinet.

Setup with Audessy and run on Auto mode in the AVR for everything. Sound quality is good, as expected, but dialog from movies and TV is indistinct to the point where my wife is now watching everything with subtitles.

I believe the problem is that the center speaker will not fit on the top shelf of the internal center compartment (by literally a millimeter or two), so it's on the lower shelf. Audessy assigns it a +3db value, but then the sound is firing directly into a fairly deep and solid coffee table.

I think the best solution might be to replace the center with an R2c, which I understand is a worse speaker overall, but will fit on the top shelf and does apparently do its job well with dialog. For music-only playback it's irrelevant because the center isn't used.

Just wanted to cross-check with the hive mind because I opted for the R3 center over the R2c in the first place before I bought the cabinet. If this makes sense I'll post the one year old walnut R3 center in the for sale section.

System is a 3.1 consisting of three Kef R3's and one KC62 connected to a Denon X3700H.

The L & R speakers are on Audio Chic R3 stands and everything else is in a BDI Corridor 8173 cabinet.

Setup with Audessy and run on Auto mode in the AVR for everything. Sound quality is good, as expected, but dialog from movies and TV is indistinct to the point where my wife is now watching everything with subtitles.

I believe the problem is that the center speaker will not fit on the top shelf of the internal center compartment (by literally a millimeter or two), so it's on the lower shelf. Audessy assigns it a +3db value, but then the sound is firing directly into a fairly deep and solid coffee table.

I think the best solution might be to replace the center with an R2c, which I understand is a worse speaker overall, but will fit on the top shelf and does apparently do its job well with dialog. For music-only playback it's irrelevant because the center isn't used.

Just wanted to cross-check with the hive mind because I opted for the R3 center over the R2c in the first place before I bought the cabinet. If this makes sense I'll post the one year old walnut R3 center in the

System is a 3.1 consisting of three Kef R3's and one KC62 connected to a Denon X3700H.

The L & R speakers are on Audio Chic R3 stands and everything else is in a BDI Corridor 8173 cabinet.

Setup with Audessy and run on Auto mode in the AVR for everything. Sound quality is good, as expected, but dialog from movies and TV is indistinct to the point where my wife is now watching everything with subtitles.

I believe the problem is that the center speaker will not fit on the top shelf of the internal center compartment (by literally a millimeter or two), so it's on the lower shelf. Audessy assigns it a +3db value, but then the sound is firing directly into a fairly deep and solid coffee table.

I think the best solution might be to replace the center with an R2c, which I understand is a worse speaker overall, but will fit on the top shelf and does apparently do its job well with dialog. For music-only playback it's irrelevant because the center isn't used.

Just wanted to cross-check with the hive mind because I opted for the R3 center over the R2c in the first place before I bought the cabinet. If this makes sense I'll post the one year old walnut R3 center in the for sale section.

Do any speakers fit to the right and left of the tv or above?

 

[phrwn]

There is space to the left and right of the TV on the top surface of the cabinet. Above is not currently possible, but may be when I move next month.

 

[LightninBoy]

Can you post a photo? I'm having trouble visualizing how you are current using an R3 with that cabinet

 

[Chrise36]

There is space to the left and right of the TV on the top surface of the cabinet. Above is not currently possible, but may be when I move next month.

You can try a a pair to the sides of slim speakers or another Kef wired together as mono (center) channel . It would be probably better to wire them in series to not push the Denon.

 

[JaMaSt]

Have you checked to see if your TV and/or AVR has a "dialog enhancer" setting?

 

[JeffS7444]

Did you remember to disable the target response default midrange dip via Audyssey app? I also found the receiver’s Dynamic Eq feature unhelpful, and ended up disabling it.

 

[phrwn]

Can you post a photo? I'm having trouble visualizing how you are current using an R3 with that cabinet

 

[DVDdoug]

think the best solution might be to replace the center with an R2c, which I understand is a worse speaker overall, but will fit on the top shelf and does apparently do its job well with dialog. For music-only playback it's irrelevant because the center isn't used.

I'd try temporarily re-positioning the current speaker first.

"Poor dialog" seems to common complaint I suspect the root problem is the surround mix. In a movie theater the volume is usually louder than home listening so it's easier to hear and understand the dialog. And the effects & music are even louder. When you turn the volume down so the effects and music are comfortable for "casual listening" a lot of the dialog is just too quiet. AVRs usually have a "DRC" (dynamic range compression) or "midnight" mode to even-out the volume so you might try that.

It may also be related to the Cinema X-curve but I'm not sure.

 

[phrwn]

Have you checked to see if your TV and/or AVR has a "dialog enhancer" setting?

Can't see anything in the amp settings. TV audio is irrelevant.

 

[phrwn]

Did you remember to disable the target response default midrange dip via Audyssey app? I also found the receiver’s Dynamic Eq feature unhelpful, and ended up disabling it.

First I'm hearing about this... will investigate.

 

[JaMaSt]

How to boost dialog on Denon AVR

I have a Denon 6700 with KEF R3/R2c. My partner has hearing loss in one ear and she sometimes finds it difficult to make out dialog, especially lower register voice (male or deep female). She is also a bit sensitive to loud volume, so we cannot simply turn it up to get more voice. I've used...

www.audiosciencereview.com

 

[Chrise36]

This cabinet is rather unsuitable for a center channel in that position

 

[JaMaSt]

This is from your model's manual

Dialog Control​

Adjust the volume of dialog in movies, vocals in music, etc. so these can be heard more easily.

0 – 6 (Default : 0)

This can be set when a DTS:X signal that is compatible with the Dialog Control function is input.

 

[LightninBoy]

Thanks, the picture helps a lot.

And yikes! I couldn't have designed a worse position for the center speaker. Do you often listen with the cabinet doors closed too?

As is, the position of the center speaker is so highly compromised that you aren't ever going to be able to make the most of your matching 3 LCR Speakers.

Imo, your best option is to figure out a way to raise the TV up to make room for the center speaker to sit directly under it (on top of the cabinet). Lucky for you the R3 should do well on its side (most bookshelf speakers would not)

 

[voodooless]

Imo, your best option is to figure out a way to raise the TV up to make room for the center speaker to sit directly under it (on top of the cabinet). Lucky for you the R3 should do well on its side (most bookshelf speakers would not)

Either that, or devise some kind of jig to mount the center above the TV.

Those two parallel doors can’t be good for speech intelligibility either. And it doesn’t look good either

 

[phrwn]

This cabinet is rather unsuitable for a center channel in that position

Yes I agree, hence the R2c contemplation.

 

[sarumbear]

You will always have this problem with that console, I’m afraid. It’s easier and cheaper if you swap that console which accommodates your speaker immediately below the TV.

I’ve been through the same journey. Furniture must allow proper speaker positioning.

 

[Dj7675]

System is a 3.1 consisting of three Kef R3's and one KC62 connected to a Denon X3700H.

The L & R speakers are on Audio Chic R3 stands and everything else is in a BDI Corridor 8173 cabinet.

Setup with Audessy and run on Auto mode in the AVR for everything. Sound quality is good, as expected, but dialog from movies and TV is indistinct to the point where my wife is now watching everything with subtitles.

I believe the problem is that the center speaker will not fit on the top shelf of the internal center compartment (by literally a millimeter or two), so it's on the lower shelf. Audessy assigns it a +3db value, but then the sound is firing directly into a fairly deep and solid coffee table.

I think the best solution might be to replace the center with an R2c, which I understand is a worse speaker overall, but will fit on the top shelf and does apparently do its job well with dialog. For music-only playback it's irrelevant because the center isn't used.

Just wanted to cross-check with the hive mind because I opted for the R3 center over the R2c in the first place before I bought the cabinet. If this makes sense I'll post the one year old walnut R3 center in the for sale section.

Just a couple comments..
-Be sure to have the speaker aimed at listeners ears. If it is aiming straight ahead from the floor, that will be a problem.
-Speakers in a cabinet can cause issues. Not sure if it is possible to raise the TV and put the speaker under the TV or not, but that would certainly help
-EQ can help. As linked in this thread already you can emulate the dialogue enhancer in the Audyssey app. Boost the 1khz-4khz range can help quite a lot
-You can also adjust the trim level of the center which can help too.

 

[phrwn]

Either that, or devise some kind of jig to mount the center above the TV.

Those two parallel doors can’t be good for speech intelligibility either. And it doesn’t look good either

I run it with the doors closed since they're open slats so, in theory, audibly transparent. But the speaker is too low, especially considering there's no room to angle it up.

Mounting above the TV is a non-starter, as is raising the TV above it. I've done that before and it was condemned an eyesore.