Need to improve home theater dialog

[phrwn]

You will always have this problem with that console, I’m afraid. It’s easier and cheaper if you swap that console which accommodates your speaker immediately below the TV.

I’ve been through the same journey. Furniture must allow proper speaker positioning.

Right. So I'm still thinking an R2c on the top internal shelf should be an improvement in that case. Outside the cabinet would be best, I know, but second best? I suppose I'm just trying to gauge degrees of improvement here.

 

[voodooless]

I run it with the doors closed since they're open slats so, in theory, audibly transparent. But the speaker is too low, especially considering there's no room to angle it up.

I doubt it will be better with the doors closed. The slats will be transparent for lower frequencies, not for mid and high frequencies.

Mounting above the TV is a non-starter, as is raising the TV above it. I've done that before and it was condemned an eyesore.

So are subtitles . What about below then?

What about disabling the Center altogether? Try that for a bit to see how well that works.

 

[Chrise36]

I run it with the doors closed since they're open slats so, in theory, audibly transparent. But the speaker is too low, especially considering there's no room to angle it up.

Mounting above the TV is a non-starter, as is raising the TV above it. I've done that before and it was condemned an eyesore.

Try your KEFs to the side of the tv as a center channel you will be surprised

 

[Dj7675]

I run it with the doors closed since they're open slats so, in theory, audibly transparent. But the speaker is too low, especially considering there's no room to angle it up.

Those 2 things will do it…have you done any measurements or listening with them open vs closed. It would seem the slats would have an effect on the dialogue. But yes, having it aimed straight ahead that low is a problem for sure.

 

[Mr. Widget]

Just as a test, reconfigure without the center and create a phantom center. My guess is that this will improve your sound for a centralized seating location.

I think your best bet is to find an aesthetically acceptable option with the center placed on top of your console and perhaps mount your TV on a pole mount allowing it to float a half inch or so above the center.

 

[Adaboy4z]

Is that single shelf in the entertainment center removeable? If so take it out and raise the Kef speaker up more maybe that will present sound better.

 

[phrwn]

Is that single shelf in the entertainment center removeable? If so take it out and raise the Kef speaker up more maybe that will present sound better.

Yes it is. I could do that, but trying to make best use of available space means I need the two shelves for all the other clutter in there.

 

[phrwn]

Thanks for all the help everyone! I think it's more of a positional issue than a settings issue, so I'm going to play around with that first. If it improves by running the center higher up or on top of the cabinet I may still switch it out for an R2c to recover the aesthetics, but at least I can test without buying anything first.

 

[Mr. Widget]

Thanks for all the help everyone! I think it's more of a positional issue than a settings issue, so I'm going to play around with that first. If it improves by running the center higher up or on top of the cabinet I may still switch it out for an R2c to recover the aesthetics, but at least I can test without buying anything first.

Good luck... nice looking setup by the way.

 

[KenMasters]

In a situation like yours, I would forgo the centre speaker altogether. A stereo phantom centre would serve you better I think.

 

[phrwn]

Ok I tried a bunch of things including pulling the entire center situation (speaker, gadgets, clutter, shelf) out and putting the speaker back raised on yoga blocks. I thought that helped but then checked by removing the blocks and wasn't so sure.

I also tried toggling Dynamic EQ and Dynamic Volume, the latter making the biggest difference (thanks for suggestions there). Not much, or any, difference between Light and Heavy settings, but massive change between Off and Light. I can now halve the overall volume and hear dialog much clearer.

I'm a bit surprised placement wasn't more of an issue and may still do the speaker swap just for optimization, but this one setting may be enough to get the subtitles turned off. Hopefully.

Thank you everyone!

 

[sarumbear]

Ok I tried a bunch of things including pulling the entire center situation (speaker, gadgets, clutter, shelf) out and putting the speaker back raised on yoga blocks. I thought that helped but then checked by removing the blocks and wasn't so sure.

I also tried toggling Dynamic EQ and Dynamic Volume, the latter making the biggest difference (thanks for suggestions there). Not much, or any, difference between Light and Heavy settings, but massive change between Off and Light. I can now halve the overall volume and hear dialog much clearer.

I'm a bit surprised placement wasn't more of an issue and may still do the speaker swap just for optimization, but this one setting may be enough to get the subtitles turned off. Hopefully.

Thank you everyone!

Temporarily place the centre speaker on the top of the cabinet in place of the TV and listen.

 

[voodooless]

So you're now running with Dynamic Volume enabled? That is basically a setting that will destroy dynamics. Maybe you're just used to listening at a too-low volume altogether?

 

[phrwn]

Temporarily place the centre speaker on the top of the cabinet in place of the TV and listen.

I just put it all back together. I'll try that after I move and have to set it all up again.

 

[phrwn]

So you're now running with Dynamic Volume enabled? That is basically a setting that will destroy dynamics. Maybe you're just used to listening at a too-low volume altogether?

I am now, since it might have resolved the issue. We were generally having to listen in the 50-60 range on the Denon before. Everything was too loud and it was still hard to make out dialog. And that's with +3db on the center.

As I said I think I might still switch the center for an R2c because it'll fit better in this particular set up, giving all the constraints, but for now dynamic destruction may have saved the day.

 

[HarmonicTHD]

I just put it all back together. I'll try that after I move and have to set it all up again.

Can only confirm what others said before. The speaker inside the cabinet is simply bound to fail (no matter what speaker. I have a very expensive KEF center - ask me how I know ;-)). Either put the center on top and raise the TV or leave out the center altogether (currently I left mine out of the system). Yes Dynamic EQ helps a bit to boost the highs (and lows) when listening at lower volume.

 

[MaxwellsEq]

I run it with the doors closed since they're open slats so, in theory, audibly transparent. But the speaker is too low, especially considering there's no room to angle it up.

There are no speakers voiced to work in that position. The slats are not transparent, certainly not at the frequencies where dialogue takes place, whilst the cabinet will act as a resonator at all sorts of frequencies.

This does however look like a fine arrangement for a stereo-only setup.

 

[phrwn]

There are no speakers voiced to work in that position. The slats are not transparent, certainly not at the frequencies where dialogue takes place, whilst the cabinet will act as a resonator at all sorts of frequencies.

This does however look like a fine arrangement for a stereo-only setup.

Well ok sure. But it’s now been tested for several hours this evening and no subtitles were required, dialog is vastly improved at a much lower overall system volume. So even if I’m not getting the best audio out of the system it’s now fit for purpose on a sound and aesthetic level.

I’m reluctant to ditch the center speaker entirely because previous stereo setups (Paradigm floorstanders) did not give clear dialog. But that might have also been an amp setting issue. I’ll probably just leave it as is for now. I know the R2c would fit on the top shelf, or even under the TV, but is it worth swapping out the R3? I’m not sure.

 

[HarmonicTHD]

Well ok sure. But it’s now been tested for several hours this evening and no subtitles were required, dialog is vastly improved at a much lower overall system volume. So even if I’m not getting the best audio out of the system it’s now fit for purpose on a sound and aesthetic level.

I’m reluctant to ditch the center speaker entirely because previous stereo setups (Paradigm floorstanders) did not give clear dialog. But that might have also been an amp setting issue. I’ll probably just leave it as is for now. I know the R2c would fit on the top shelf, or even under the TV, but is it worth swapping out the R3? I’m not sure.

Good that you solved it for you.

To your question: see the many answers above. No swapping the center speaker will not improve the situation in your particular setup.

 

[phrwn]

Good that you solved it for you.

To your question: see the many answers above. No swapping the center speaker will not improve the situation in your particular setup.

Nice! For once, no money to spend. What a rare joy.