Need system help/suggestions for movies/music

[rickyricardo]

Hey all. I’ve been here a few times being exposed to amirm’s very informative reviews and related discussions but now I have more questions than when I first got here. I have an existing setup but have the upgrade itch but not sure the best path.

Currently running 3.1 with -

• Marantz NR1609
• Paradigm Monitor 7 v3 LR, matching Center and (unused) bipolar surrounds
• SVS PB-1000 Pro
• LG C9 OLED
• Apple TV

I've been paying more attention to music/sound details etc because of this site. It feels like my speakers just aren't really doing anything. I’ve had the Paradigms for like 15 years now and I believe they sounded better with more power from my past history of AVRs. I’ve owned an Onkyo, 2 Denons and Marantz. I'm now on my second Marantz AVR at my current home of just a few years. I didn’t realize until recently that my NR1609 was only putting out 50w while my monitor 7s can take 150w. Not sure why I didn't think I'd need more power I've been paying more attention lately they just don't sound like i remember them. Sound is fine but it's not very engaging. It could be the room. I admittedly can't find the audyssey to calibrate my room but I am looking to get some room treatment.

So... assuming I need more power, I was looking at the X3800/X4800, Marantz prices have really gone up and I'm not much a Onkyo fan any longer. Should I get the X4800 and call it a day or if I should look into separates. I'm not sure if I could add an amp to my NR1609 to power the front LR maybe C? If I went separates, I have no idea what I'd need or what to start with first - power amplifier (3 channels?), pre-amp or whatever an integrated amp is. I see Anthem is a good pairing with Paradigm but I'm worried about the video side, HDMI switching, eArc, etc. Would prefer not to go past $2500-ish, at least at 1 time. I add other components later.

I even thought about getting new speakers, maybe that don't require as much sound to get going (Paradigms seem bored when I get the volume near max on the NR1609, though normally listening level is around 64/100 (sorry, don't know the dbs However, I don't know where to start with speakers. I haven't auditioned anything but aside from Paradigm, I think I like KEF, Wharfedale, Q Acoustics and Elac.

Where to start? Buy an audyssey mic? Buy a new AVR (with mic) which should last a few years or begin the separates journey? And/or try new speakers?

Thanks!

 

[Chagall]

Hey all. I’ve been here a few times being exposed to amirm’s very informative reviews and related discussions but now I have more questions than when I first got here. I have an existing setup but have the upgrade itch but not sure the best path.

Currently running 3.1 with -

• Marantz NR1609
• Paradigm Monitor 7 v3 LR, matching Center and (unused) bipolar surrounds
• SVS PB-1000 Pro
• LG C9 OLED
• Apple TV

I've been paying more attention to music/sound details etc because of this site. It feels like my speakers just aren't really doing anything. I’ve had the Paradigms for like 15 years now and I believe they sounded better with more power from my past history of AVRs. I’ve owned an Onkyo, 2 Denons and Marantz. I'm now on my second Marantz AVR at my current home of just a few years. I didn’t realize until recently that my NR1609 was only putting out 50w while my monitor 7s can take 150w. Not sure why I didn't think I'd need more power I've been paying more attention lately they just don't sound like i remember them. Sound is fine but it's not very engaging. It could be the room. I admittedly can't find the audyssey to calibrate my room but I am looking to get some room treatment.

So... assuming I need more power, I was looking at the X3800/X4800, Marantz prices have really gone up and I'm not much a Onkyo fan any longer. Should I get the X4800 and call it a day or if I should look into separates. I'm not sure if I could add an amp to my NR1609 to power the front LR maybe C? If I went separates, I have no idea what I'd need or what to start with first - power amplifier (3 channels?), pre-amp or whatever an integrated amp is. I see Anthem is a good pairing with Paradigm but I'm worried about the video side, HDMI switching, eArc, etc. Would prefer not to go past $2500-ish, at least at 1 time. I add other components later.

I even thought about getting new speakers, maybe that don't require as much sound to get going (Paradigms seem bored when I get the volume near max on the NR1609, though normally listening level is around 64/100 (sorry, don't know the dbs However, I don't know where to start with speakers. I haven't auditioned anything but aside from Paradigm, I think I like KEF, Wharfedale, Q Acoustics and Elac.

Where to start? Buy an audyssey mic? Buy a new AVR (with mic) which should last a few years or begin the separates journey? And/or try new speakers?

Thanks!

Hi, welcome to ASR!

Going off memory can be misleading, but if you feel the sound isn’t engaging, the first thing to do is measure your in-room frequency response using REW. You’ll need a miniDSP UMIK-1 mic - but honestly, anyone even semi-serious about sound should own one.

Check your speaker placement - toe-in for the mains and subwoofer positioning. Measure each change in REW. Naturally, run Audyssey calibration and see if the results suit your preferences. If nothing improves, or not to your satisfaction, then consider upgrading your speakers.

Also, keep in mind that Apple TV apps are - for some reason - quieter than the native LG TV apps. That could be the change you’re noticing, and turning up the volume might give the impression your Marantz lacks power. If everything on the video side is working fine and you just need more headroom, the last thing I’d replace is the AVR. Instead, consider adding a stereo power amp for your L&R channels (the NR1609 only has two pre-outs, so full LCR isn’t possible - although I haven't checked the manual thoroughly).

Only look at a new AVR if you're after more features. If so, Denon or Onkyo (like the RZ50 or RZ70) are worth checking out.

 

[DVDdoug]

Different speakers always make a difference (better or worse).

EQ will change the sound. Different AVRs have different tone control/EQ options, and many new ones have "room correction".

Why aren't you using the surrounds? More channels can make a big difference but a lot of people don't like artificial up-mixing of stereo (I do!). 5.1 is enough for me, but to my ears it was a BIG upgrade over stereo. In addition to up-mixing I have a shelf-full of concert DVDs with 5.1 surround and I enjoy the surround with movies.

 

[Daverz]

Agree with Chagall, time to start moving the speakers and listening position (LP) around the room. Try placing the speakers closer together and sitting closer. Start with the speakers pointed directly at the LP and then try toeing them out (parallel to the wall behind them (front wall)) or toeing them further in (pointing in front of the LP). Try them well out from the front wall and close to the front wall. You're trying to find a more engaging tonality, so don't worry about precision at this stage.

As for power, do you actually find yourself running out of volume before you can find a sufficient volume? Or does the sound get "hard" at that volume?

 

[rickyricardo]

Hi, welcome to ASR!

Going off memory can be misleading, but if you feel the sound isn’t engaging, the first thing to do is measure your in-room frequency response using REW. You’ll need a miniDSP UMIK-1 mic - but honestly, anyone even semi-serious about sound should own one.

Check your speaker placement - toe-in for the mains and subwoofer positioning. Measure each change in REW. Naturally, run Audyssey calibration and see if the results suit your preferences. If nothing improves, or not to your satisfaction, then consider upgrading your speakers.

Also, keep in mind that Apple TV apps are - for some reason - quieter than the native LG TV apps. That could be the change you’re noticing, and turning up the volume might give the impression your Marantz lacks power. If everything on the video side is working fine and you just need more headroom, the last thing I’d replace is the AVR. Instead, consider adding a stereo power amp for your L&R channels (the NR1609 only has two pre-outs, so full LCR isn’t possible - although I haven't checked the manual thoroughly).

Only look at a new AVR if you're after more features. If so, Denon or Onkyo (like the RZ50 or RZ70) are worth checking out.

Thank you!

I do have a UMM-6 mic I bought it for car audio. Would that suffice? I tried REW in regards to car audio and never really got the hang of it but that might've been because of car vs home. I'll get a new audyssey mic and run that. Good tip about AVR being the last upgrade. That makes sense. Any stereo amp in particular? I believe Anthem pairs well.

Edit: The Apple TV volume comment is interesting and new to me. It's also something I might not have noticed.

 

[rickyricardo]

Different speakers always make a difference (better or worse).

EQ will change the sound. Different AVRs have different tone control/EQ options, and many new ones have "room correction".

Why aren't you using the surrounds? More channels can make a big difference but a lot of people don't like artificial up-mixing of stereo (I do!). 5.1 is enough for me, but to my ears it was a BIG upgrade over stereo. In addition to up-mixing I have a shelf-full of concert DVDs with 5.1 surround and I enjoy the surround with movies.

In my 12' x 12' run, everything is against the wall pretty much. The bipolars are big and heavy and were designed to sit in-between the MLP and the fronts. In my room, that's a glass door and a kitchen bar. I read that bi-polars were no longer recommended by Dolby. I'm thinking of smaller speakers and mounting them on/near the rear wall on the sides. I just need to find a good match in a small enough package.

 

[rickyricardo]

Agree with Chagall, time to start moving the speakers and listening position (LP) around the room. Try placing the speakers closer together and sitting closer. Start with the speakers pointed directly at the LP and then try toeing them out (parallel to the wall behind them (front wall)) or toeing them further in (pointing in front of the LP). Try them well out from the front wall and close to the front wall. You're trying to find a more engaging tonality, so don't worry about precision at this stage.

As for power, do you actually find yourself running out of volume before you can find a sufficient volume? Or does the sound get "hard" at that volume?

I don't run out of volume but it feels like I have to play it louder than normal levels to really start to hear a fuller (warmer?) sound. Like the mids/lower mids are more recessed more than I remember.

 

[Chagall]

Thank you!

I do have a UMM-6 mic I bought it for car audio. Would that suffice? I tried REW in regards to car audio and never really got the hang of it but that might've been because of car vs home. I'll get a new audyssey mic and run that. Good tip about AVR being the last upgrade. That makes sense. Any stereo amp in particular? I believe Anthem pairs well.

If the mic works in REW than it fine. Ideally get a mic that works in REW an with your AVR. That won't work...I was thinking about Dirac and Marantz doesn't have it.

For the amp, I would look at Hypex or Purifi based class D amps. Depending on where you live and budget, there are a lot of brands that make those amp. Even big brands like NAD, Cambridge Audio and Marantz are now using those class D moduls. Benefits are efficiency, low heat, more watts for less money and great measurements. Take a look at Amir's tests and explanation videos on ASR YouTube channel.

"Pairs well" is really not a thing. That's something subjective reviews say. Objectively if pre outs on AVR output clean 2V then you need an amp that will be able to reach it's full output with that signal. Not that you will ever need full output, but that to me means pairs well. Same with amp-speaker "synergy"...subjective and biased takes without properly controled, level-matched AB tests.

Not all amps sound the same! But a well measuring modern amps will. And that is what you want.

 

[Daverz]

I don't run out of volume but it feels like I have to play it louder than normal levels to really start to hear a fuller (warmer?) sound. Like the mids/lower mids are more recessed more than I remember.

If that's not mitigated by moving the speakers and listening position around, then I would start thinking about EQ.

 

[rickyricardo]

If that's not mitigated by moving the speakers and listening position around, then I would start thinking about EQ.

Thanks.

If the mic works in REW than it fine. Ideally get a mic that works in REW an with your AVR. That won't work...I was thinking about Dirac and Marantz doesn't have it.

For the amp, I would look at Hypex or Purifi based class D amps. Depending on where you live and budget, there are a lot of brands that make those amp. Even big brands like NAD, Cambridge Audio and Marantz are now using those class D moduls. Benefits are efficiency, low heat, more watts for less money and great measurements. Take a look at Amir's tests and explanation videos on ASR YouTube channel.

"Pairs well" is really not a thing. That's something subjective reviews say. Objectively if pre outs on AVR output clean 2V then you need an amp that will be able to reach it's full output with that signal. Not that you will ever need full output, but that to me means pairs well. Same with amp-speaker "synergy"...subjective and biased takes without properly controled, level-matched AB tests.

Not all amps sound the same! But a well measuring modern amps will. And that is what you want.

This is great info, I appreciate it. I’m going to get a replacement mic so I can run audyssey and look at those amps you suggested.