Need new amp and to Wiim or Not to Wiim

[agiletiger]

My Carver M200t has served my dad and I well for 40 years. What I am getting sick of is the speaker wires pulling out of the back of the amp so easily. The speaker terminals are tiny and you can only fit a sliver of wire strands in the back. After the most recent incident of this, I want to move into something different.

Current system: MiniDSP flex, Rega ELA mk II speakers, 2 RSL Speedwoofer 10S
Primarily used for watching tv and some music streaming. I also have a Mac mini attached to it with all my cds on it.

Contemplating one of three options:
1. Keep MiniDSP, get a class D amp with enough power to give me options for speaker upgrades. Really looking forward to having an auto switch on it.
2. Get one of the Wiim amps - Having a streamer would simplify a number of things for me. Looking forward to finally having something that supports hdmi ARC. Can you plug two subwoofers into it? Am I hesitating due to sunk cost fallacy on the MiniDSP? Don’t have another place in the house where I could use it.
3. Get a Wiim streamer and a separate power amp? I don’t know why this would be the way to go. Just a possibility.

Thoughts? Anything I’m not thinking of?

 

[staticV3]

Can you plug two subwoofers into it?

Via an RCA splitter, yes.

Would recommend DSP subs in that case to allow for individual settings for best integration.

Otherwise, both subs will play the same signal.

 

[l_lama]

Hi!

I'm looking to replace my system as well and as of now can't give your recommendation, just list of questions to narrow down your option list:

1. Do you need just sound input from TV, or power sync and volume controls using TV remote are also required too?
2. Are you using DIRAC with your MiniDSP? Do you want to keep using it? Do you want to use advanced version DLBC?
3. If you want DIRAC or similar room correction, do you need dynamic loudness simultaneously?

 

[agiletiger]

1. Definitely want volume control via tv remote. Didn’t think of power synchronous but sure.
2 and 3. Not using Dirac but took advantage of everything else minidsp offers. Never really figured out how to set separate settings on the subs though. Not a dealbreaker on the latter.

 

[dguillor]

For more flexibility in choice of speaker upgrade you may want to get an amp with more power than Wiim amps provide, like one with Hypex modules. I love the neatness of my system with a Wiim amp pro, having a very high spousal approval rating, but it would lack power for some speakers.

 

[l_lama]

Take a look at integrated amplifiers with DAC and HDMI - Cambridge Audio EXA100 or Edge A, Arcam A15+ or A25+, you can connect both streamer, computer and TV into same device, if will convert and amplify digital signal.
One of the thing I'm concerned with this device type is switching from TV to streamer and back on such devices.
HDMI CEC tells amplifier to read digital data from HDMI, but for external streamer there is no such logic, you may have to change input manually.

Also there are few of all-in-one boxes — Rotel RAS5000, Yamaha R-N series (with quite serious R-N2000a at the helm), Arcam SA35 or SA45 etc.
Such boxes may have or miss analog inputs and digital outputs which could enable future upgrade to advance (but not integrated) setup, if you will ever need one.

There are budget models based on budget AVRs like Denon DRA-900 or Onkyo TX-8470, but it only advantage is probably amount of HDMIs port derived from AVRs which let you connect your console and avoid audio delay in games (if you have one).
Passing console sound via eARC may cause some delay which is fine for music, but gamers could be irritated, AVRs and AVR-based receivers with modern HDMI version solves this issue.

Personally, I'll go with either all-on-one solution for simplicity, or split it into expendable streaming part (like Wiim Ultra, Bluesound Node Icon or Onkyo P-80) and more or less fundamental power amp to facilitate future speakers upgrade.

Abandon MiniDSP Flex if you want to manage power and volume using TV remote.

Also, your speakers cables are probably quite thin due to amplifiers output connectors. Consider replacing them with something like 12 AWG oxygen-free copper speaker cable, it will help your new amplifier to keep it's output impedance low and better control speaker's woofers.

 

[agiletiger]

Take a look at integrated amplifiers with DAC and HDMI - Cambridge Audio EXA100 or Edge A, Arcam A15+ or A25+,

What would be the advantage of going with those over the Wiim Amp Ultra?

Consider replacing them with something like 12 AWG oxygen-free copper speaker cable, it will help your new amplifier to keep it's output impedance low and better control speaker's woofers.

Yes! This is actually the root cause of the issue. I switched to a thicker gauge cable and realized that not all the strands of the wire can fit into the terminals.

 

[DWPress]

Do you have the skills to replace the speaker connections on the Carver with something better?

 

[agiletiger]

Do you have the skills to replace the speaker connections on the Carver with something better?

I don’t know how nor do I have the time to do so.

 

[l_lama]

What would be the advantage of going with those over the Wiim Amp Ultra?

Integral amplifiers may have lower outout impedance and higher damping factor (Cambridge's EXA100 damping factor is 160)

Despite huge power output for it's size, Wiim has damping Factor of 94

I find this reading very educational: https://benchmarkmedia.com/blogs/application_notes/audio-myth-damping-factor-isnt-much-of-a-factor
There are sample calculations for damping factor 10,100,200, but you have to 'add cables'.

A system-level damping factor of 171 can be achieved at the end of a Benchmark 10-foot 11-Ga cable when driven by a Benchmark AHB2 amplifier which has a damping factor of 370.

https://www.audiosciencereview.com/...rk-myth-busting-white-paper.13826/post-422280

There are spreadsheets in the article, you can use it to plan for particular speakers, amplifier and cable gauge to see how would it affect frequency response.

For my own future setup, I attempt to secure higher damping factor / lower output impedance just to have some room for imperfections of other compnents. If you have some speakers in mind, find their electrical measurements (min and max resistance) and drop into the spreadsheet.

It seems that damping factor of 400 is actually sufficient as futher improvements are dissolved in cables resistance and lot of real-world speakers will be good with something over 200.

Integrated amplifiers will remains useful as amplifier, DAC and HDMI input if Wiim run out of business and will no longer ship firmware update (like it recently happens with Cocktail Audio and Auralic).

 

[Nopiano]

It seems that damping factor of 400 is actually sufficient as futher improvements are dissolved in cables resistance and lot of real-world speakers will be good with something over 200.

I think you are overstating the benefits of a high damping factor, i.e. a very low output impedance. Sure, it should not be as high impedance as many tube amps are, but it’s not really a consideration with almost any new solid state device, including a Wiim.

 

[dguillor]

I think you are overstating the benefits of a high damping factor, i.e. a very low output impedance. Sure, it should not be as high impedance as many tube amps are, but it’s not really a consideration with almost any new solid state device, including a Wiim.

I think post filter feedback is desirable for flat response, and some modern class-d amps, including the original Wiim amp, don’t have this.

 

[Nopiano]

I think post filter feedback is desirable for flat response, and some modern class-d amps, including the original Wiim amp, don’t have this.

I completely agree, but that’s nothing to do with ‘damping factor’ which I was responding to.

 

[dguillor]

I completely agree, but that’s nothing to do with ‘damping factor’ which I was responding to.

It does have to do with damping factor at high frequencies.

 

[agiletiger]

Update: Got the following

1. Wiim Amp Ultra
2. Wiim Ultra and Fosi Audio V3 300W X2

I’ll go with 2 if all goes well due to price.

 

[GGroch]

Excellent Choices. And you'll get a good bit ($250?) of it back selling the Carver M200T on eBay/Facebook. Amps of that vintage are at a premium.

A seller tip if you go that route. On amps with obsolete spring speaker connectors, I throw in a pair of $14 speaker adapters to the listing. I'm certain it enhances my listing over competitors and gets me a better price because the buyer assumes (correctly) that I give a damn. I just bought another dozen banana plugs for my mini class D amp sales.

 

[Head_Unit]

speaker wires pulling out of the back of the amp so easily.

Yeah pins as @GGroch shows. But I love love love my WiiM Amp after some months. It just turns itself on and WORKS.