Need integrated amp: 100 W+ into 4 Ω, headphone amp, ≤€1 k, SINAD ≥100 dB

[ŽELJKO]

I'll keep you posted about my impressions and sound experience when it finally arrives and when it becomes the part of my first hi-fi system. Thank you so much.

 

[Nopiano]

Just want to push back a bit on this condescension re playing with toylike WiiM and Fosi products and instantly jettisoning them, and the elevation of brand longevity and “pedigree” as gold-standard criteria in the year 2025.

I’ve evolved from Sony ES and Musical Fidelity integrateds to a current lineup that includes WiiM, SMSL, and Fosi amps. I’ve been somewhat amazed that my sound seemingly hasn’t lost a step in performance at a dramatically lower cost — so far so good in terms of reliability and a bunch of innovation and versatile features that are thrillingly up to date. Nothing to make me feel I’ve been imprudent or rash or should be relegated to the unserious kid’s table.

Thanks for the courteous push back. My attempt at brevity unfortunately stopped short of conveying how impressed I’ve been with Fosi and Wiim. I used the Fosi v3 monos for six months in place of my excellent class D Primare and Class A Pass Labs. Similarly with the Wiim Pro Plus in place of my Linn DSM streamer/pre, where the Wiim app is much more useable and stable despite my liking for Linn’s support and upgradeable design. I’d happily use them both long-term, and still have them.

It’s only after owning hifi gear for fifty years that I belatedly appreciated serviceability and back-up. That translated into healthy resale prices too from kit I bought around 1998. Amazing though these new products are, they are surely landfill, and completely uneconomic to repair. I literally have no idea how I can buy a working electronic device for around $150 or less, shipped from around the world. I could scarcely make a living if I could ship empty boxes at that price - it beggars belief!

Nothing unserious therefore, and I hope I’ve explained myself better this time.

 

[Bloomer]

Thanks for the thoughtful replies, everyone – the thread has actually helped me boil the question down to two concrete paths.
1.
Keep the Teufel Ultima 40 Mk4 and buy a €400-€500, 150-200 W/4 Ω, SINAD-clean class-D power stage (Topping PA5 II, 3E Audio 250-2, Fosi V3 Mono, etc.).
– Cheap, measures well, plenty of head-room for these speakers, no headphone section needed because the DX5 II will already cover that.
2.
Send the Teufels back, raise the speaker budget to €900-€1 000 and mate them with a €350-€400 integrated (Yamaha A-S701 or the new WiiM Amp Ultra).
– Gives me a demonstrably better transducer, but I lose the raw power the class-D blocks offer and, with the Yamaha, I drop 15-20 dB of SINAD.

If I stay with the Teufels I know I’ll enjoy them – I’ve already heard them in a mate’s place and they’re a big step up from the Panasonic micro-system I lived with for so many years.

The “buy better speakers first” argument is absolutely valid, yet swapping boxes again means another month of couriers, repacking, and living with TV sound while I hunt for the next candidate. At 51 I’d rather start listening now and upgrade later when I’ve learnt what I actually crave in a speaker.

So, unless someone can point to an integrated under €1 k that simultaneously:

- does 150-200 W/4 Ω with good current delivery

- keeps SINAD ≥100 dB

- remains a valid choice for the time I choose to upgrade the speakers and buy the better ones

…I’ll take the first road: keep the Teufels, add a clean class-D power amp, and run the DX5 II for headphones.
If that chain still leaves me wanting in a year or two, the amp will happily drive whatever fancier speakers I audition next.

Does anyone see a hole in that plan – reliability issues with the Topping/3E/Fosi boxes, fan noise, ground-loop gremlins, anything? Real-world feedback is appreciated; paper specs only tell half the story..

I need enough clean power on tap that the music never sounds squeezed—big dynamic jumps, bass that punches without bloat, and enough headroom that I can turn it up to “live” level.

I’m told the heavier the transformer, the harder the amp can hit when the music demands it—more punch, more grip, more headroom...

I advise you to not buy direct from Fosi, their customer service is the worst of any I've ever experience for any product. You'll be dealing with phone culture people apparently using Google translate. See my posts at the end of the ZD3 review thread. It's still going on, 12 emails later, demanding a video of what's wrong with the non-functional HDMI port. I'm supposed to video electricity or something? Nowhere in their return policy is there a requirement for a video.
I finally just sent the thing back, they can do what they want with it.

Have fun with your quest, the speaker/amp combo usually dominate the other stuff.

 

[Ropeburn]

I advise you to not buy direct from Fosi, their customer service is the worst of any I've ever experience for any product. You'll be dealing with phone culture people apparently using Google translate. See my posts at the end of the ZD3 review thread. It's still going on, 12 emails later, demanding a video of what's wrong with the non-functional HDMI port. I'm supposed to video electricity or something? Nowhere in their return policy is there a requirement for a video.
I finally just sent the thing back, they can do what they want with it.

Have fun with your quest, the speaker/amp combo usually dominate the other stuff.

Another point of concern: if you buy from overseas in the EU, you legally become the importer and are liable for the product. Lend it to a friend, it's faulty and burns his house down? Congrats, you're liable. Good luck with insurances, better hope they don't find out.

Better buy from EU sellers. They'll be the importer, no worries there, and they're also subject to return and warranty laws. Much better chance of getting helped in case of problems with the product.

 

[HalSF]

Thanks for the courteous push back. My attempt at brevity unfortunately stopped short of conveying how impressed I’ve been with Fosi and Wiim. I used the Fosi v3 monos for six months in place of my excellent class D Primare and Class A Pass Labs. Similarly with the Wiim Pro Plus in place of my Linn DSM streamer/pre, where the Wiim app is much more useable and stable despite my liking for Linn’s support and upgradeable design. I’d happily use them both long-term, and still have them.

It’s only after owning hifi gear for fifty years that I belatedly appreciated serviceability and back-up. That translated into healthy resale prices too from kit I bought around 1998. Amazing though these new products are, they are surely landfill, and completely uneconomic to repair. I literally have no idea how I can buy a working electronic device for around $150 or less, shipped from around the world. I could scarcely make a living if I could ship empty boxes at that price - it beggars belief!

Nothing unserious therefore, and I hope I’ve explained myself better this time.

Great reply — thanks. I too have had a real affection for the lasting value and durability and reliability of great hi-fi components. Once I finally put together a first decent hi-fi system in the early 2000s with components from Musical Fidelity, Sony, Denon, Paradigm, and Rega, I enjoyed beautiful sound without making any major changes for over two decades. Compared with the relentless creeping toward obsolescence and more-or-less mandatory frequent replacement required by electronics like smartphones and computers and televisions, high-quality audio can be a fantastic enduring bargain over the long run.

Right now I'm making a different bet on brands that are beating the pants off a lot of venerable audiophile brands, in terms of incredible performance and feature-rich design for very little money. The lack of a track record and some very iffy issues in terms of customer service are obvious risks.

 

[ŽELJKO]

How about this one:

https://www.audiosciencereview.com/...nics-mpa-s250nc-amp-review.45306/post-1756276

Quoting:
"The new AP300-S250NC is 50€ more expensive than the MPA-S250NC, but should have better thermals and, more importantly, both RCA and XLR (not one or the other)."


And, in my opinion, it looks better too.
It’s now 10 % off, priced at € 494.10 while MPA-S250NC is listed at 479€.

 

[ŽELJKO]

Could you please confirm the best wiring solution for my system and the choice of cables (Amazon.it)?

1.WiiM Ultra (Streamer)
2.TOPPING DX5 II (DAC and dedicated HP output)
3.Audiophonics AP300-S250NC (Power Amplifier)
4.Teufel Ultima 40 Mk4

Can I connect the WiiM Ultra to the Topping DX5 II with a USB-A to USB-B cable and the Topping DX5 II to the Audiophonics AP300-S250NC with a Balanced XLR Connection?"

 

[ŽELJKO]

I decided to purchase the Audiophonics AP300-S250NC, and it arrived today. Once I connected it to my DAC/streamer (WiiM Ultra) and floorstanding speakers (Teufel Ultima 40 Mk4), I gave it a quick test before heading to work. I should mention that I'm using deleyCON 10m 2x 4.0 mm² OFC speaker wire with Nakamichi 24K gold-plated banana jacks (12-18 AWG, 4mm).
My first listening session was disappointing. Over those 20 minutes, I sampled various genres, and I genuinely didn't enjoy the sound—it felt "lifeless." Then it occurred to me: "I need to let the speakers break in," as someone had suggested on the forum.

 

[voodooless]

My first listening session was disappointing. Over those 20 minutes, I sampled various genres, and I genuinely didn't enjoy the sound—it felt "lifeless."

Amps and DACs have no sound, so if you don’t like the sound it’s probably the speakers an or their room interaction.

Then it occurred to me: "I need to let the speakers break in," as someone had suggested on the forum.

Not more than a few minutes usually. Your ears probably need longer to get used to a new set of speakers.

But you have EQ possibilities, so there is a lot of latitude for improving the sound. Usually a good starting point is to measure what is going on using a measurement microphone. Generally this gives some good pointers on how to EQ. For bass performance you may even get away with you sing your phone and some free app to get at least some idea.

 

[Morla]

I decided to purchase the Audiophonics AP300-S250NC, and it arrived today. Once I connected it to my DAC/streamer (WiiM Ultra) and floorstanding speakers (Teufel Ultima 40 Mk4), I gave it a quick test before heading to work. I should mention that I'm using deleyCON 10m 2x 4.0 mm² OFC speaker wire with Nakamichi 24K gold-plated banana jacks (12-18 AWG, 4mm).
My first listening session was disappointing. Over those 20 minutes, I sampled various genres, and I genuinely didn't enjoy the sound—it felt "lifeless." Then it occurred to me: "I need to let the speakers break in," as someone had suggested on the forum.

Obvious troll attempt, no?

 

[ŽELJKO]

Obvious troll attempt, no?

Ha ha ha

 

[ŽELJKO]

Amps and DACs have no sound, so if you don’t like the sound it’s probably the speakers an or their room interaction.

Not more than a few minutes usually. Your ears probably need longer to get used to a new set of speakers.

But you have EQ possibilities, so there is a lot of latitude for improving the sound. Usually a good starting point is to measure what is going on using a measurement microphone. Generally this gives some good pointers on how to EQ. For bass performance you may even get away with you sing your phone and some free app to get at least some idea.

Just got home from work and gave my hi-fi system another chance with the WiiM Ultra equalizer and I completely take back everything I said about the sound quality. After doing the RoomFit calibration and playing around with the EQ settings for a bit, I'm honestly thrilled with how it sounds now.

I have to give special mention to the Audiophonics AP300-S250NC chassis. The build quality is absolutely top-notch, and it has that satisfying, premium feel when you touch it, the kind of tactile quality that really inspires confidence.