Need help with near field speakers - Noob alert

[slymmer]

Hi im looking for speakers for my PC. I tried the edifier r1855db and found the bass to be over powering at lower levels of volume. The speaker kept producing rrrrrrrr kinda sound at the slightest of base while the vocals were like from very far away. The constant hummmming sound from the bass extensions was irritating to say the least when sitting so close to the speakers and more we reduce the volume the vocals disappear leaving behind only the base. I was thinking about edifier mr4 or Kali LP 6 . Please suggest would any of these fit the description im looking for . I see with mr4 there is a slide in measurements while kali is flat . which is better for sitting and listening close to the speaker without the irritating bass . Speaker to be purchased in india and active speaker is what im looking for. looking for natural clear producing as recorded at the source output with clear vocals and instrument. the speakers will be used only for desk use and fairly low volumes with time to time mid range volumes. also YouTube listening the edifier produced a very heavy sound for the vocals like im in some theatre with bass over powering evrything. I turned down the bass and still the issue persisted.

Requirement - nice vocals / mids and less bass ( like base extension and less of the rumble ) .

 

[staticV3]

Hi @slymmer! Welcome to ASR.

I see with mr4 there is a slide in measurements while kali is flat . which is better for sitting and listening close to the speaker without the irritating bass .

You want flat, ideally.

For your use case, consider the Kali LP-UNF or the MM-6, as these can be easily connected to your PC via USB or SPDIF, which would be preferred over Line out from our motherboard.

 

[slymmer]

Thanks a ton for your response. the above options are bit out of my budget as they cost well over 30k inr. Are there any option below 200 dollar range. Also what should I be looking for when I read the reviews ? MR4 and Kali LP 6 how different are they from the options you just mentioned. thanks for the help and much appreciate it.

Also not looking at inputs type much ( as I'll connect it directly to my Mac ) but just a speaker which falls under my budget and solves the issue of my near field listening. MM6 isnt available in india and unfortunately unf and mm6 are very costly .

Oh I did not realize that the cost is for a single speaker Kali LP 6. Thats way too costly. Can I use single speaker for the PC or do I need a pair. Everything under 200 dollars pair or single .

would mr4 do the job ? thats a pair for 11k ins ( 120 dollars ) , single speaker Kali LP 6 200 dollars . Or any other speaker you suggest.

Thanks

 

[Roland68]

Thanks a ton for your response. the above options are bit out of my budget as they cost well over 30k inr. Are there any option below 200 dollar range. Also what should I be looking for when I read the reviews ? MR4 and Kali LP 6 how different are they from the options you just mentioned. thanks for the help and much appreciate it.

Also not looking at inputs type much ( as I'll connect it directly to my Mac ) but just a speaker which falls under my budget and solves the issue of my near field listening. MM6 isnt available in india and unfortunately unf and mm6 are very costly .

Oh I did not realize that the cost is for a single speaker. Thats way too costly. Can I use single speaker for the PC or do I need a pair. Everything under 200 dollars pair or single .

Thanks

The selection in India is actually not that great, but there are currently a few offers on Amazon, but they are only valid today.
The Yamaha HS5 MP would be my first choice.
I can't say much about the JBL, but they have a good reputation.
If you don't want to spend the money, then I can recommend the M-Audio, I had the Bx3 myself for a while and they are really good for the price. The Bx4 have a larger woofer.

Yamaha HS5 MP Powered Studio Monitors 50th Anniversary Special Edition Matched Pair, Black
Yamaha HS5 PAIR 5-inch Powered Studio XLR Monitor Pair Speakers, Bookshelf, Black
Yamaha MSP3A Powered Monitor Speaker
JBL Professional 305P MkII Next-Generation 5" 2-Way Powered Studio Monitor (305PMKII) (Pair)
JBL Professional 308P MkII Next-Generation 8" 2-Way Powered Studio XLR Monitor Woofer (308PMKII) (Pair)
M-Audio Bx4 120-Watt Powered Rca, Auxiliary Studio Monitors
M-Audio Bx3 120-Watt Rca, Auxiliary Powered Studio Monitors

 

[slymmer]

Hi @slymmer! Welcome to ASR.


You want flat, ideally.

For your use case, consider the Kali LP-UNF or the MM-6, as these can be easily connected to your PC via USB or SPDIF, which would be preferred over Line out from our motherboard.

Thanks a ton for your response. the above options are bit out of my budget as they cost well over 30k inr. Are there any option below 200 dollar range. Also what should I be looking for when I read the reviews ? MR4 and Kali LP 6 how different are they from the options you just mentioned. thanks for the help and much appreciate it.

Also not looking at inputs type much ( as I'll connect it directly to my Mac ) but just a speaker which falls under my budget and solves the issue of my near field listening. MM6 isnt available in india and unfortunately unf and mm6 are very costly .

Oh I did not realize that the cost is for a single speaker Kali LP 6. Thats way too costly. Can I use single speaker for the PC or do I need a pair. Everything under 200 dollars pair or single .

would mr4 do the job ? thats a pair for 11k ins ( 120 dollars ) , single speaker Kali LP 6 200 dollars . Or any other speaker you suggest.

Thanks

 

[slymmer]

@staticV3 @Roland68 - I got the Kali lp unf - amazing speakers the mids are amazing so are the highs. Issue is the bass ( I dont like it much ) . I have set the speakers dip switches to +2 treble and -2 bass . The high are awesome but I wanna reduce the bass . Any suggestions ? also I have a return window for these do you suggest any other speaker ? I like the speakers to be a bit bright which is figured out ( or reduced base ). Yamaha seems to be right choice ? hs3,4,5 . I love treble listening more not bass ( base presence is nice but not much ).

I love kali vocals a lotttt they are awesome though ..

 

[AnalogSteph]

Since we have measurements for these speakers, you should be able to make a custom PEQ with Equalizer APO + PEACE (which can import graphs to serve as a template). I imagine you'd be quite happy if you were to flatten out the 60 Hz to 220 Hz area to about 86 dB. (You'd have to reset the bass EQ though.)

How do you have the Kalis placed? Bass is the area where the room has the most to say. Placement close to a back wall would increase bass through the boundary effect. Also make sure you raise them to ear level using whatever you have as stands (small boxes and stacks of books qualify as long as not too resonant), having speakers directly on a desk really screws with the sound.

 

[slymmer]

Since we have measurements for these speakers, you should be able to make a custom PEQ with Equalizer APO + PEACE (which can import graphs to serve as a template). I imagine you'd be quite happy if you were to flatten out the 60 Hz to 220 Hz area to about 86 dB. (You'd have to reset the bass EQ though.)

How do you have the Kalis placed? Bass is the area where the room has the most to say. Placement close to a back wall would increase bass through the boundary effect. Also make sure you raise them to ear level using whatever you have as stands (small boxes and stacks of books qualify as long as not too resonant), having speakers directly on a desk really screws with the sound.

thank you for your reply

I use a Mac any suggestion for equalizer + graph ?

Also looks like the speakers are indeed resonating with the desk I might need a dampening foam also they are extreme close to the walls as shown in pictures.

Also im using an eq which I seem to be loving ( any speaker close to this eq which I can play these setting out of the box ? hs5 ? Mackie for the vocals and less of boom ? )

Problem - the bass just keeps doing boom boom boom while the vocals are lost. previous was edifier 1850 those were worse. big smiley type curve. Any speakers close to laptop speakers ( I know it weird as I dont like much of bass but just enough)

 

[staticV3]

high are awesome but I wanna reduce the bass . Any suggestions ?

Have you tried using the DIP switches 1-3? These will reduce the bass further.

Yamaha seems to be right choice ? hs3,4,5

Here are measurements of all three: https://audiore.kr/?s=yamaha

The HS3 and HS4 employ some extreme cost-cutting by not using a crossover at all, so those I'd definitely skip.

Even the HS5 does not give the impression of competent acoustic design. I wouldn't buy it.

I use a Mac any suggestion for equalizer + graph ?

SoundSource is great.

Problem - the bass just keeps doing boom boom boom while the vocals are lost.

Solution - get a measurement microphone (UMIK-1, Micbooster EM258), measure the speaker's in-room response, then use the Parametric EQ built into SoundSource to apply room correction.

To be clear: the bass going boom boom is not an issue of the LP-UNF specifically.

Rather, every speaker that extends deep enough into the bass has the same issue.

It's a problem of room acoustics.
The solution is therefore room treatment or room correction.

The DIP switches 1-3 are a primitive form of room correction, whereas a measurement microphone and Parametric EQ are full-fledged room correction.

 

[slymmer]

Have you tried using the DIP switches 1-3? These will reduce the bass further.

Yes I have used the back dip switches and they really help for sure . set the 1-3 closer to wall setting while treble +2 and bass -2.

Here are measurements of all three: https://audiore.kr/?s=yamaha

The HS3 and HS4 employ some extreme cost-cutting by not using a crossover at all, so those I'd definitely skip.

Even the HS5 does not give the impression of competent acoustic design. I wouldn't buy it.

Got it ...

SoundSource is great.

Have it, using it to play around to set the eq to my liking ( figured out the 250 hz is what is doing that boom boom feels like I'm in a theatre. )

Solution - get a measurement microphone (UMIK-1, Micbooster EM258), measure the speaker's in-room response, then use the Parametric EQ built into SoundSource to apply room correction.

Okay ill try measuring

To be clear: the bass going boom boom is not an issue of the LP-UNF specifically.

Rather, every speaker that extends deep enough into the bass has the same issue.

yes I feel the same too.

It's a problem of room acoustics.
The solution is therefore room treatment or room correction.

The DIP switches 1-3 are a primitive form of room correction, whereas a measurement microphone and Parametric EQ are full-fledged room correction.

I feel so too.

So if I had an option to find a speaker for mostly dialogues ( good mids and highs ) and bass being less ( may be smaller drivers ? ). Which speaker would you suggest ?
Would soundbar solve my purpose . The sound from deep bass speakers when the bass kicks in its like the phones vibration mode has kicked in ( phone vibration alert sound ) gggrrrrr ggggrrrrrr gggrrrrrr which is really annoying sitting closer to the speakers.

Sound of dialogue from Kali is immaculate simply wao like crispy( one reason I don't want to send them back ). the issue is when the bass notes kick in its that annoying rrrr rrrrr ( phone vibration alert sound feeling ). I would love these speaker if there weren't any bass note at 30 percent currently .

simply put mids and highs 100% and bass say about 30% to remove the edge of the mids and highs kinda speaker.

@staticV3 Thanks for bearing with me and your effort is really appreciated . Also during this whole time I learnt so much about my musical preferences and music in general is wonderful. Any suggestions would help.

 

[staticV3]

So if I had an option to find a speaker for mostly dialogues ( good mids and highs ) and bass being less ( may be smaller drivers ? ). Which speaker would you suggest ?

Check out https://www.spinorama.org/ for a comprehensive list of loudspeaker specs and measurements.

You can filter by type, price, etc and sort by bass extension to find a suitable speaker.

Any suggestions would help.

Since the problem is your room, rather than the speakers, I would fix the room, rather than sending back the speakers.

That involves putting some foam between speakers and desk and measuring and correcting the room response with a measurement microphone.

Also, by elevating the speakers using proper stands, so that the tweeters are at ear height, you'll likely get better sound quality and no longer need to set treble to +2.

 

[slymmer]

Check out https://www.spinorama.org/ for a comprehensive list of loudspeaker specs and measurements.

You can filter by type, price, etc and sort by bass extension to find a suitable speaker.


Since the problem is your room, rather than the speakers, I would fix the room, rather than sending back the speakers.

That involves putting some foam between speakers and desk and measuring and correcting the room response with a measurement microphone.

Also, by elevating the speakers using proper stands, so that the tweeters are at ear height, you'll likely get better sound quality and no longer need to set treble to +2.

Thanks a ton for the inputs . I'll try implementing your suggestions. thank you so much once again. I'll order some foams right away. Ill keep you posted

 

[Roland68]

Thanks a ton for the inputs . I'll try implementing your suggestions. thank you so much once again. I'll order some foams right away. Ill keep you posted

There's no point trying out lots of speakers now if the problem isn't with the speakers.
You should first proceed systematically, because even EQ will only help you to a limited extent if you have mechanical resonance problems.

First of all, please take towels/bath towels and place them under the speaker in a size the same size as the base area, at least 2-3cm high.
When you've tested that, then place books under the speakers, about 1cm of towels under the books and another about 2cm between the books and the speakers.
When you've tried that, post your results. Then we'll see what the next steps are.

Addendum:
The books should bring the tweeters to ear level.

 

[slymmer]

There's no point trying out lots of speakers now if the problem isn't with the speakers.
You should first proceed systematically, because even EQ will only help you to a limited extent if you have mechanical resonance problems.

First of all, please take towels/bath towels and place them under the speaker in a size the same size as the base area, at least 2-3cm high.
When you've tested that, then place books under the speakers, about 1cm of towels under the books and another about 2cm between the books and the speakers.
When you've tried that, post your results. Then we'll see what the next steps are.

Addendum:
The books should bring the tweeters to ear level.

Thanks for the reply . Really appreciate the effort of reading and understanding my issue.


So what I did was stacked 4 folded t-shirts and placed the speakers under it. The issue is not with the speakers but my preference of a speaker kind. The Speaker is playing how it's intended to. For example song Modjo lady -

( has a beat with bass starting at 15 second onwards which is exactly how the music is made and reproduced on a headphones too ) which is kinda fine on a headphones when turned to lower volumes but on a speaker its way too loud. I kinda dont like that ddrrrrr ddrrrr ( body is also shaking ) kinda sound. As I have been listening to my music mostly on headphone, car stock speakers and TV which cut out that rumble of bass . The mids and high are awesome( kali )and neutral thanks to the bass woofer and the tweeter ( put my ear next to it and listened to it and the bass cone with tweeter combo helps with that flat neutral sound ) which are the best I have ever heard in my life ( one reason I dont want to send the speaker back ). Also listing from far the sound is immaculate. The bass is more in your face ( but still there ). Man the speaker sounds awesome.

The only eq I liked was vocal booster ( soundsource ) so the boost of 500-2k hz is what I like. and of course the rumble ( ddrrr drrrr is what I hate) . Trying to figure out a speaker which does the above well. Thinking of full range speakers where the frequencies aren't divided and are more like the old Sony radios we used to get ( pic added Sony radio ). This would cut out the bass rumble and make the vocals and the mids prominent.

I appreciate the KALI and wouldnt buy anything else if I had to play it a room with amazing spacing between the wall and speaker as they are immaculate. People shouldn't look anywhere else but kali simply awesome as it's the most natural sounding speaker ever heard by me ( not at all colored ). But on a desk close to the wall the bass get overwhelming and fatiguing. Need something more soothing at lower volumes.

Im sure it's a weird request but it is none the less. But now I understand my music preference too.

 

[Roland68]

Thanks for the reply . Really appreciate the effort of reading and understanding my issue.


So what I did was stacked 4 folded t-shirts and placed the speakers under it. The issue is not with the speakers but my preference of a speaker kind. The Speaker is playing how it's intended to. For example song Modjo lady -

( has a beat with bass starting at 15 second onwards which is exactly how the music is made and reproduced on a headphones too ) which is kinda fine on a headphones when turned to lower volumes but on a speaker its way too loud. I kinda dont like that ddrrrrr ddrrrr ( body is also shaking ) kinda sound. As I have been listening to my music mostly on headphone, car stock speakers and TV which cut out that rumble of bass . The mids and high are awesome( kali )and neutral thanks to the bass woofer and the tweeter ( put my ear next to it and listened to it and the bass cone with tweeter combo helps with that flat neutral sound ) which are the best I have ever heard in my life ( one reason I dont want to send the speaker back ). Also listing from far the sound is immaculate. The bass is more in your face ( but still there ). Man the speaker sounds awesome.

The only eq I liked was vocal booster ( soundsource ) so the boost of 500-2k hz is what I like. and of course the rumble ( ddrrr drrrr is what I hate) . Trying to figure out a speaker which does the above well. Thinking of full range speakers where the frequencies aren't divided and are more like the old Sony radios we used to get ( pic added Sony radio ). This would cut out the bass rumble and make the vocals and the mids prominent.

I appreciate the KALI and wouldnt buy anything else if I had to play it a room with amazing spacing between the wall and speaker as they are immaculate. People shouldn't look anywhere else but kali simply awesome as it's the most natural sounding speaker ever heard by me ( not at all colored ). But on a desk close to the wall the bass get overwhelming and fatiguing. Need something more soothing at lower volumes.

Im sure it's a weird request but it is none the less. But now I understand my music preference too.

You are making a fundamental mistake.
The speaker reproduces what is on the track.
To put it bluntly, it is absolute nonsense to buy or tune your speakers based on tracks that are tuned completely over the top.
You will have to get used to it first.

Please try this version, is it a bit better? Modjo - Lady (Hear Me Tonight) (2023 Remaster) 432 Hz

The next step would be to close the bass reflex opening with very porous foam or a slightly crumpled silk cloth, about 3cm deep.

What is normal tuned music like?

Are you absolutely sure that the bass is not boosted in the depths of your computer/operating system/program or that a loudness function is not activated?

 

[AnalogSteph]

Are you absolutely sure that the bass is not boosted in the depths of your computer/operating system/program or that a loudness function is not activated?

I don't think built-in sound misimprovements are much of a thing in the fruity computer world, but it certainly doesn't hurt to check.

 

[slymmer]

You are making a fundamental mistake.
The speaker reproduces what is on the track.
To put it bluntly, it is absolute nonsense to buy or tune your speakers based on tracks that are tuned completely over the top.
You will have to get used to it first.

I totally hear you , but the tracks these days have the note ( rrr rrrr ) turned to the max cause that the beat which sells. Im looking at the speakers which could reduce or remove that side notes make is presence less felt . I was reading about HS5 ( correct me if Im wrong ) is a reason why they are tuned like that ( less bass cause of flatter cone ? and higher brights ). Of course the original song would be playing not as intended on these HS5 ( kali does this well as they produce more neutral sound )

Please try this version, is it a bit better? Modjo - Lady (Hear Me Tonight) (2023 Remaster) 432 Hz

The song sounds much much much better cause of the rounded bass.

The next step would be to close the bass reflex opening with very porous foam or a slightly crumpled silk cloth, about 3cm deep.

I have port stuffed it before too and I'll do it again but the issue remains. but the bass was much better controlled I liked it with port stuffed.

What is normal tuned music like?

Are you absolutely sure that the bass is not boosted in the depths of your computer/operating system/program or that a loudness function is not activated?

A 100% it just a usb-c to my speaker ( works like a charm ).

Kali speaker produces exactly the sound what the original creator intended to do or may be way too well if I may say. These songs have a heavy rumble , bass and are amazing to listen to from far or for music creators who want to hear every note they are trying to recreate. When we get them on a desktop for a casual listening such as YouTube or zoom calls or music listening at lower levels these advantages become disadvantages. Like if the mic of the opposite person pics up too much bass that is recreated and we cannot understand similar sounding words without increasing volume which increase the bass. Also the music excites you while listening to and these speakers performance delivers that experience to the max ( goosebumps ) but thats way too exciting unless im hearing it at really low volumes.

If the song has less bass the speaker is GOD ( may be because thats what I like ) . One song I would suggest( has very less rumbling bass or controlled ) which shows the potential of this speaker ( vocals mids and lows ). This is the only speaker I could hear all the notes. Song is local language Hindi. The vocals, too good. But not all songs are tuned this way.

Good example

Example of rumbling base song. When the bass note kicks in it hits your body kinda feeling and gets you excited but is annoying when you just wanna listen to it for the vocals only the bass ( dub dub sends vibration across the body )
Bad example

May be buying a cheap set ( suggestions would help ) speakers which just enhances my laptop speakers is what Im thinking now. These speakers listening from far would be my buy any days ( like for tv watching etc )

A speaker which is not sharp as like the inbuilt speakers but also not too rumbled bass ( extended bass ) as the power monitors. Something warm with clear vocals. ( simple full range speakers would do too ). suggestions please. edifier 1280 ? or anything cheaper like pebble Mackie c3x ? . I know they aren't audiophile levels but hope you understand my requirement of a simple desktop speakers for close listening.

my personal fav which sound wao on the speakers

@staticV3 @AnalogSteph

 

[Roland68]

I totally hear you , but the tracks these days have the note ( rrr rrrr ) turned to the max cause that the beat which sells. Im looking at the speakers which could reduce or remove that side notes make is presence less felt . I was reading about HS5 ( correct me if Im wrong ) is a reason why they are tuned like that ( less bass cause of flatter cone ? and higher brights ). Of course the original song would be playing not as intended on these HS5 ( kali does this well as they produce more neutral sound )

The song sounds much much much better cause of the rounded bass.


I have port stuffed it before too and I'll do it again but the issue remains. but the bass was much better controlled I liked it with port stuffed.

View attachment 399015



A 100% it just a usb-c to my speaker ( works like a charm ).

Kali speaker produces exactly the sound what the original creator intended to do or may be way too well if I may say. These songs have a heavy rumble , bass and are amazing to listen to from far or for music creators who want to hear every note they are trying to recreate. When we get them on a desktop for a casual listening such as YouTube or zoom calls or music listening at lower levels these advantages become disadvantages. Like if the mic of the opposite person pics up too much bass that is recreated and we cannot understand similar sounding words without increasing volume which increase the bass. Also the music excites you while listening to and these speakers performance delivers that experience to the max ( goosebumps ) but thats way too exciting unless im hearing it at really low volumes.

If the song has less bass the speaker is GOD ( may be because thats what I like ) . One song I would suggest( has very less rumbling bass or controlled ) which shows the potential of this speaker ( vocals mids and lows ). This is the only speaker I could hear all the notes. Song is local language Hindi. The vocals, too good. But not all songs are tuned this way.

Good example

Example of rumbling base song. When the bass note kicks in it hits your body kinda feeling and gets you excited but is annoying when you just wanna listen to it for the vocals only the bass ( dub dub sends vibration across the body )
Bad example

May be buying a cheap set ( suggestions would help ) speakers which just enhances my laptop speakers is what Im thinking now. These speakers listening from far would be my buy any days ( like for tv watching etc )

A speaker which is not sharp as like the inbuilt speakers but also not too rumbled bass ( extended bass ) as the power monitors. Something warm with clear vocals. ( simple full range speakers would do too ). suggestions please. edifier 1280 ? or anything cheaper like pebble Mackie c3x ? . I know they aren't audiophile levels but hope you understand my requirement of a simple desktop speakers for close listening.

my personal fav which sound wao on the speakers

@staticV3 @AnalogSteph

It is always the worst possible idea to tinker with the symptoms rather than the cause.

You don't want to dampen the lower bass range, but rather a wider range up to over 200Hz.
That wouldn't work with a broadband speaker either.
I just tried that with an 8cm (3.3") full-range speaker, which still produces this bass range, but much more unpleasantly.

That means you're looking for speakers:
- That are really bad to begin with.
- Or really poorly developed/tuned.
- Or simply broken.

Every normally tuned song would then sound bad and your actual problem could get even worse.
Because many cheap and small speakers are over-emphasized in this range to compensate for their small size and also play this range imprecisely. In most cases, it would make your problem even worse.

If the solution is clearly bad, I can't help you and that's where I'm out.

The sensible solution would be a DSP/EQ solution, where you store different curves for different types of music, possibly also volume-dependent.

 

[AnalogSteph]

The good news is that you do not appear to be looking for ABBA levels of basslessness (I suppose their output had the portable tape recorders of the time in mind).

Funnily enough the "bad" track does not sound overly bothersome to me here, but I suspect the offending wub wub is very deep and I was happy to get my office speakers EQ'd to this level with quite a bit of bass boost as-is:

So that's like -3 dB at 58ish Hz and -10 dB at 52ish Hz.

I suspect that you may be hitting a bad room mode somewhere in the 60 Hz vicinity or below. REW has a "Room Sim" function, I'd suggest entering your room dimensions and speaker / listening positions there and seeing what kind of modes it spits out.

 

[slymmer]

It is always the worst possible idea to tinker with the symptoms rather than the cause.

You don't want to dampen the lower bass range, but rather a wider range up to over 200Hz.
That wouldn't work with a broadband speaker either.
I just tried that with an 8cm (3.3") full-range speaker, which still produces this bass range, but much more unpleasantly.

That means you're looking for speakers:
- That are really bad to begin with.
- Or really poorly developed/tuned.
- Or simply broken.

Every normally tuned song would then sound bad and your actual problem could get even worse.
Because many cheap and small speakers are over-emphasized in this range to compensate for their small size and also play this range imprecisely. In most cases, it would make your problem even worse.

If the solution is clearly bad, I can't help you and that's where I'm out.

The sensible solution would be a DSP/EQ solution, where you store different curves for different types of music, possibly also volume-dependent.

thanks a ton for your time , really appreciate it. I totally hear your points and they are bang on. It's a weird dilemma I hope to find some solution.