need help with ncore nc252mp Verses 3E Audio PFFB selection

[fatoldgit]

Have no experience with Class D so are comparing two options at Audiophonics.

The Ncore nc252mp option is a 4 channel amp whereas the 3E Audio PFFB is a two channel amp so will need two of these... but the cost is the same so the only difference in this space is two boxes verses one which isnt a deal breaker.

Both use XLR inputs which is what I need and both chassis are full width.

The 3E Audio PFFB chassis has good venting top and bottom wheres as the Ncore nc252mp chassis has large heat sinks... maybe the heat sinks give it a small edge.

The 3E Audio PFFB has a seperate power supply as opposed to the nc252mp which is onboard which does make the 3E Audio PFFB more repairable cost wise (to a minor degree)

From a measurements perspective it also seems a wash... power is the same... dynamic range is so close it doesnt matter ... THD+N is better in the 3E Audio PFFB but my old ears wont tell the difference.

If we assume Audiophonics build good stuff (and from what I can see they do) then my major questions are:

- is there any fundamental difference in the reliability of an Ncore nc252mp verses 3E Audio PFFB
- any compelling real world sound quality differences that makes one a better bet

I am favouring the Ncore nc252mp simply because its been around a long time (both the company and the nc252mp) and thus has had any issues sorted... this is important as I live in NZ which is a long way away from France so all other things being basically the same, then I want the most reliable option.

Many thanks for any insights.

Peter

Below are the specs:

3e Audio PFFB - four channels @ 1000 €

AUDIOPHONICS AP300-S2503E Power Amplifier 3E AUDIO 260-2-29A PFFB

The Audiophonics AP300-S2503E is a stereo power amplifier featuring a 3e Audio PFFB amplifier module. This enables it to develop 2x250W of power under 4Ω while delivering exceptional sound quality, combining precision and dynamics.

www.audiophonics.fr

2x150W @ 8Ω, 1% THD+N
2x250W @ 4Ω, 1% THD+N
2x180W @ 6Ω, 1% THD+N
THD+N 0.0007%
Dynamic range 125dB
Output noise 18µV
Output impedance 10mΩ
Frequency response 20Hz - 20kHz ±0.5dB

NCore NC252MP - four channels @ 1090 €

AUDIOPHONICS HPA-Q250NC Power Amplifier Class D 4 Channel NCore NC252MP 4x250W 4 Ohm - Audiophonics

The Audiophonics HPA-Q250NC is a four-channel amplifier based on two Hypex Ncore NC252MP.

www.audiophonics.fr

4x150W @ 8Ω 1% THD
4x250W @ 4Ω 1% THD
4x180W @ 2Ω 1% THD
THD+N 0.0015%
SNR 121dB
Output noise 30μV
Output impedance 1.5mΩ
Frequency response 10Hz - 50kHz

 

[amarsicola]

Erin just posted a video stating that he could not hear any difference between the Ayima a70 (similar to 3e audio) and a Purifi-based March audio, much more expensive. So even if the 3e is marginally better in sinad than Hypex, you will never hear any difference. Both of them are the best for quality/price ratio, and audiophonics guys are very competent. For the same price i'd go for the safest choice unless i lived in Europe, hypex has excellent reputation

 

[voodooless]

Since the Hypex stuff has proven itself over many years and the difference in price is small, I would probably go for that. They are both fine amps otherwise.

 

[apnz]

Hi Peter, great to see another kiwi in ASR (I am sure there are many others). I have the exact same query, so I will keep this post monitored. One thing that I somehow struggle with when comparing the two is to find similar configurations (e.g. using XLR) and "current" revisions, which I think were released for the NC252MP. I understood that the Hypex NC252MP was reviewed few times by different amp "assemblers" at different point in time, with variable results (e.g. the IOM one, which now appears to be upgraded in their website with a different enclosure and layout). Anyway, I am with you regarding the importance of reliability.

 

[apnz]

Apologies for the newbie question: mosty in subjective reviews, I read that some amps go better with "brighter" speakers. Which one of these two goes better with brighter speakers, and what data (if any) can we use to say so? Thanks!

 

[mcdn]

Apologies for the newbie question: mosty in subjective reviews, I read that some amps go better with "brighter" speakers. Which one of these two goes better with brighter speakers, and what data (if any) can we use to say so? Thanks!

There will be no audible difference, those subjective reviews are being very imaginative. For the prices offered I would go for the Hypex unit, and I say that as a long time user and fan of 3e-audio. There have been too many cases shown here recently of poor construction of the new units from 3e, including reversed capacitors. I'm sure audio phonics filter for that but really why bother when the Hypex alternative is there and will sound the same.

 

[Snafu]

I received today AUDIOPHONICS AP300-S2503E Power Amplifier 3E AUDIO 260-2-29A PFFB XLR

AUDIOPHONICS AP300-S2503E Power Amplifier 3E AUDIO 260-2-29A PFFB

The Audiophonics AP300-S2503E is a stereo power amplifier featuring a 3e Audio PFFB amplifier module. This enables it to develop 2x250W of power under 4Ω while delivering exceptional sound quality, combining precision and dynamics.

www.audiophonics.fr

Setting up was super easy, no on/off-pops, absolutely no audible hiss or buzz from speakers or device itself. It has automatic 4/8 ohm selection. Listening it with Topping D50s, Denafrips Hestia and Duntech Opal speakers. I don't see anything wrong with sound (image or natural sound or what ever plankton there might be). Gain is less than my previous power amps but that's why there is a stepped volume attenuator in Hestia

With this short experience, recommended device.

 

[amarsicola]

. Which one of these two goes better with brighter speakers, and what data (if any) can we use to say so? Thanks!

Frequency response of both amplifier and speaker (on axis) has to be flat, if you have a "bright" speaker (therefore with a wrong frequency response) it is better you put your money on speakers first. Here you find some videos on how to distinguish a good from bad speaker

 

[apnz]

Frequency response of both amplifier and speaker (on axis) has to be flat, if you have a "bright" speaker (therefore with a wrong frequency response) it is better you put your money on speakers first. Here you find some videos on how to distinguish a good from bad speaker

Thank you for the link, appreciated! In the last weeks, I also learnt that the elephant in the room is the room itself, so I will implement room correction via DSP to flatten as much as possible, even if I am conscious that is more refinement rather than a solution to all problems. I have constraints in terms of budget and layout (must go on wall) which greatly limit the options (not many on wall models out there...). I ended up with the Focal 302, which from what I can understand have a tendency of being "bright" rather than the opposite. So, with speakers selected already, I was asking if one of these 2 is more appropriate in my case, for example, not emphasizing higher frequencies.

 

[amarsicola]

I would go for the hypex then use a wiim pro plus as source since it has embedded dsp (or raspberry pi with volumio and a topping dac)

 

[antcollinet]

Another lean towards the hypex here. Track record based.

 

[Jukka]

Thank you for the link, appreciated! In the last weeks, I also learnt that the elephant in the room is the room itself, so I will implement room correction via DSP to flatten as much as possible, even if I am conscious that is more refinement rather than a solution to all problems. I have constraints in terms of budget and layout (must go on wall) which greatly limit the options (not many on wall models out there...). I ended up with the Focal 302, which from what I can understand have a tendency of being "bright" rather than the opposite. So, with speakers selected already, I was asking if one of these 2 is more appropriate in my case, for example, not emphasizing higher frequencies.

You are making the correct decisions. Some amplifiers have load dependency (high frequencies get boosted) so much that it's very easy to hear. So easy in fact that you can start to question your hearing. Both of the amplifier options here are not very load dependant, so either one is a good choice in that regard.

But that effect is fixable with DSP, and you seem to have it available, so if it feels too bright or the opposite to you, you can tweak it with your DSP.

I trust Hypex products more than Chinese chipamp clones, so I'd go for it. Read what you will.