Need Help Choosing Compact Computer Speakers

[ChaoscripT]

Just 24" wide FYI for a open mind

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It's really can handle music?
Becuase I know it's for movies etc.

And if I going with bluetooth/wireless maybe it's prefer to go with homepod mini.

 

[Timcognito]

This site tests and rates small monitors, soundbars, smart etc https://www.rtings.com/

 

[ChaoscripT]

Hi Again,
So I've made some measurements again, and I think I can insert speakers until 20cm height.
I've made some comparison table of speakers that I found that can be in this place,

Screenshot

Captured with Lightshot

prnt.sc

1. To be honest I prefer speakers with 1/4" TRS input to continue use my SMSL D-6 but it's ok if I need to replace it.
2. The speakers will be against the wall, means the wall will be behind them.
3. My Eris E5 also can be in this space but I see that they very big according to my desk.
4. The Adam D3V still high for me.
5. To be honest #2, I prefer speakers that I can connect Sub woofer in the future

* I went through all the Edifier speakers, only the 2 in the table are fit.

Tags
@kemmler3D
@Mort
@staticV3
@Doenerkunde
@Jiraya369
@Shrek6
@Timcognito

(Sorry for tags, just make sure you will see again the thread, not happen again)

 

[Jiraya369]

kanto ora or micro monitors

Hi Again,
So I've made some measurements again, and I think I can insert speakers until 20cm height.
I've made some comparison table of speakers that I found that can be in this place,

Screenshot

Captured with Lightshot

prnt.sc

1. To be honest I prefer speakers with 1/4" TRS input to continue use my SMSL D-6 but it's ok if I need to replace it.
2. The speakers will be against the wall, means the wall will be behind them.
3. My Eris E5 also can be in this space but I see that they very big according to my desk.
4. The Adam D3V still high for me.
5. To be honest #2, I prefer speakers that I can connect Sub woofer in the future

* I went through all the Edifier speakers, only the 2 in the table are fit.

Tags
@kemmler3D
@Mort
@staticV3
@Doenerkunde
@Jiraya369
@Shrek6
@Timcognito

(Sorry for tags, just make sure you will see again the thread, not happen again)

 

[ChaoscripT]

kanto ora or micro monitors

Why you choose them? (Just want to understand)

 

[antcollinet]

I'm surprised no one has pointed this out yet.

It might be that your experience of low-volume sound being unsatisfactory might be nothing to do with the speakers, and simply down to the way our perception of frequencies varies with SPL.

Equal loudness curves show that at lower volumes we perceive the level of bass frequencies falling off quicker than mid-range frequencies as SPL reduces.

This is why some amplifier manufacturers (especially Yamaha) implement a loudness control which boosts lower and higher frequencies as volume reduces.

If this is the reason for your perception of sound quality - then since it is not speaker-related you are not going to solve it by changing speakers (Unless they themselves implement loudness compensation). It might be that all you need to do with your current speakers, is to use equalisation on your PC to mimic the equal loudness compensation used by Yamaha (boosting bass and treble). Even a simple graphic equaliser would be good enough - though you can probably find some sort of plugin that implements it for you.

At the very least it is something you can try out with zero cost.

Release LoudnessCompensator v1.0.0 · grisys83/LoudnessCompensator

LoudnessCompensator v1.0.0 First stable release of the LoudnessCompensator JUCE plugin - A perceptual loudness compensation plugin based on ISO 226:2003 equal-loudness contours. What's New Com...

github.com

The Graphic EQ on my mac even has a preset for it:

 

[Jiraya369]

Why you choose them? (Just want to understand)

cus they're good and we have measurements to prove that, kanto ora is my choice though. Micros were good back in the day.

 

[ChaoscripT]

I'm surprised no one has pointed this out yet.

It might be that your experience of low-volume sound being unsatisfactory might be nothing to do with the speakers, and simply down to the way our perception of frequencies varies with SPL.

Equal loudness curves show that at lower volumes we perceive the level of bass frequencies falling off quicker than mid-range frequencies as SPL reduces.

This is why some amplifier manufacturers (especially Yamaha) implement a loudness control which boosts lower and higher frequencies as volume reduces.

If this is the reason for your perception of sound quality - then since it is not speaker-related you are not going to solve it by changing speakers (Unless they themselves implement loudness compensation). It might be that all you need to do with your current speakers, is to use equalisation on your PC to mimic the equal loudness compensation used by Yamaha (boosting bass and treble). Even a simple graphic equaliser would be good enough - though you can probably find some sort of plugin that implements it for you.

At the very least it is something you can try out with zero cost.

Release LoudnessCompensator v1.0.0 · grisys83/LoudnessCompensator

LoudnessCompensator v1.0.0 First stable release of the LoudnessCompensator JUCE plugin - A perceptual loudness compensation plugin based on ISO 226:2003 equal-loudness contours. What's New Com...

github.com

The Graphic EQ on my mac even has a preset for it:

View attachment 504068

Thanks for that!
I don't know if I mention it or not, but I'm going to switch to Mac from Windows, then it's good that I know it's have on Mac system.
About the E5, They too big for me so it's #2 reason that I replace them, I prefer something smaller (yes I know that the sound will decrease) but my table is also small.

cus they're good and we have measurements to prove that, kanto ora is my choice though. Micros were good back in the day.

Thanks for that.

 

[staticV3]

I've made some comparison table of speakers that I found that can be in this place,

Screenshot

Captured with Lightshot

prnt.sc

The Eris 3.5 2nd Gen is garbage: https://www.erinsaudiocorner.com/loudspeakers/presonus_eris3.5_mk2/

As is the A2+: Link

I've made some measurements again, and I think I can insert speakers until 20cm height.

That unlocks four more options not yet on your list: EVE SC203 and Vanatoo Zero Plus (both with built-in Sub output), as well as iLoud Micro Pro and Adam D3v.

Also, if the 8010a at $1k is on the list, then the LSX II /LSX II LT should be there too, no?
The IN-UNF as well (though it's understandable if that one's disqualified due to the weird form factor).

 

[ChaoscripT]

The Eris 3.5 2nd Gen is garbage: https://www.erinsaudiocorner.com/loudspeakers/presonus_eris3.5_mk2/

As is the A2+: Link

The IN-UNF as well (though it's understandable if that one's disqualified due to the weird form factor).

Deleted A2+ and Eris E3.5.
Update list,

Screenshot

Captured with Lightshot

prnt.sc

Also, if the 8010a at $1k is on the list, then the LSX II /LSX II LT should be there too, no?

To be honest, I don't want to invest so much for the speakers (not in this time).

That unlocks four more options not yet on your list: EVE SC203 and Vanatoo Zero Plus (both with built-in Sub output), as well as iLoud Micro Pro and Adam D3v.

Adam D3V is too big still, about the rest I've added them to the list,
The question is if it's really worth the extra money.

Regards.

 

[staticV3]

Adam D3V is too big still

20cm tall according to the product page

 

[ChaoscripT]

20cm tall according to the product page

You right,
But with stand it’s 24cm.

Their price good for me,
But I need the stands to tilt them no?

 

[staticV3]

You right,
But with stand it’s 24cm.

Right.

W/o tilt base, the D3V is 20cm tall.

If we temporarily assume that the tilt base only tilts and doesn't add any additional height, then we can conclude from the following data:

Height=20cm, Depth=15cm, Tilted Height=24cm

..that the base adds about 20° of tilt, resulting in the front upper edge to rise to 24cm (as stated) and the rear upper edge to drop to 18.7cm height.

Whether that'd fit into your planned desk setup, I don't know.

But I need the stands to tilt them no?

But then you also need to consider the same thing for all the other speakers. E.g:

• Genelec 8010A:
  195mm height is with the isopod but w/o tilt, so the Genelecs would be even taller once tilted upward.
  
  
• iLoud Micro:
  180mm is likely with the tilt leg not extended, so with the speaker sitting flat.
  Judging from iLoud's diagram, height at the front of the speaker would increase to ~193mm with the leg flipped out:
  
  The iLoud's tilt appears to be less severe btw, just about 10°.
  
  
• iLoud Micro Pro:
  Same story here. Though no similar diagram exists for the Pro, if we assume identical 10° tilt mechanism as on the regular Micro, the Micro Pro would grow to 221mm tall.
  
  
• Kanto ORA:
  175mm height is yet again with the speaker flat. At 10°, front upper edge would rise to 197mm. At 20°, 213mm.
  
  
• Kanto YU2:
  150mm at 0°, 171mm at 10°, 187mm at 20°
  
  
• Edifier M60:
  168mm at 0°, 191mm at 10°, 208mm at 20°
  
  
• Edifier S880DB:
  Website says 168mm tall, but that's actually the depth, with height being 230mm. It has to be, when you look at product pics taken from the side (Link)
  
  
• Vanatoo Zero+:
  The trapezoidal design makes this the only speaker on your list which would actually shrink when setup tilted.
  Tilt appears to be ~14° based on Vanatoo's diagram:
  
  Height would therefore go from 190.5 to 183mm.
  
  
• EVE SC203:
  Another curious design:
  
  Not sure which config I should assume to interpret the official dimensions, so am not neven gonna try.
  If useful, tilt can be set to 0/7/14°

Please keep in mind that for all of these numbers, I assumed that the tilt mechanism would keep the rear bottom edge of the speaker in contact with the desk.
If instead the tilt stand also lifts that edge off the desk, then you need to add this offset to the heights calculated above.

 

[kyuu]

I would strongly consider the Kali IN-UNF. The "weird form-factor" is pretty much ideal considering your space limitations, and when set up correctly they perform extremely well, better than any of the extremely compact "normal" bookshelf models.

 

[ChaoscripT]

Right.

W/o tilt base, the D3V is 20cm tall.

If we temporarily assume that the tilt base only tilts and doesn't add any additional height, then we can conclude from the following data:

Height=20cm, Depth=15cm, Tilted Height=24cm

..that the base adds about 20° of tilt, resulting in the front upper edge to rise to 24cm (as stated) and the rear upper edge to drop to 18.7cm height.

Whether that'd fit into your planned desk setup, I don't know.


But then you also need to consider the same thing for all the other speakers. E.g:

• EVE SC203:
  Another curious design:
  View attachment 504244
  Not sure which config I should assume to interpret the official dimensions, so am not neven gonna try.
  If useful, tilt can be set to 0/7/14°

Please keep in mind that for all of these numbers, I assumed that the tilt mechanism would keep the rear bottom edge of the speaker in contact with the desk.
If instead the tilt stand also lifts that edge off the desk, then you need to add this offset to the heights calculated above.

Thanks! wow which a response.
So let's answer,
24cm height is too much for me, because after the speakers the screen monitors start (the screen monitors above them).

Genelec 8010A:
195mm height is with the isopod but w/o tilt, so the Genelecs would be even taller once tilted upward.

You right, they too tall and too pricey for me. Deleted from the list.

iLoud Micro:
180mm is likely with the tilt leg not extended, so with the speaker sitting flat.
Judging from iLoud's diagram, height at the front of the speaker would increase to ~193mm with the leg flipped out:
View attachment 504224
The iLoud's tilt appears to be less severe btw, just about 10°.

They don't mention in their website the height with the tilt open, but I saw 2 different images,
https://cdn.shortpixel.ai/spai/q_lo...om/storage/2021/08/iLoud-Micro-Dimensions.jpg (Source)
According to this image they say, with the tilt open it's 18cm height.

https://noaudiophile.com/IK_Multimedia_iLoudMM/IK_Multimedia_IloudMM_Size.jpg (Source)
But according to this image, it's seems like the tilt make the speaker heigher but not that much, maybe you right and it's something like 19cm.
10° isn't enough?

iLoud Micro Pro:
Same story here. Though no similar diagram exists for the Pro, if we assume identical 10° tilt mechanism as on the regular Micro, the Micro Pro would grow to 221mm tall.

Yes, too much after the tilt. Deleted from the list.

Kanto ORA:
175mm height is yet again with the speaker flat. At 10°, front upper edge would rise to 197mm. At 20°, 213mm.

Here there is a different story,
According to the website, the height is 17.5cm,
Then with the S2 stands of Kanto, the height will increase by 3.4cm to 20.9cm with 16° (Source)
But I can make them horizontal instead of vertical and save some cm, the question is if the sound much hurt from this.

Kanto YU2:
150mm at 0°, 171mm at 10°, 187mm at 20°

Same as ORA, but I think I can't horizontal them.
With the S2 stands the height will increase to 18.4cm.

Edifier M60:
168mm at 0°, 191mm at 10°, 208mm at 20°

Some Universal Desktop Speaker Stand Metal Bracket from Aliexpress with 16° give increase of 3cm, then the M60 still in the frame.

Edifier S880DB:
Website says 168mm tall, but that's actually the depth, with height being 230mm. It has to be, when you look at product pics taken from the side (Link)

You right.
I checked with google and they 230mm tall, deleted from list.

Vanatoo Zero+:
The trapezoidal design makes this the only speaker on your list which would actually shrink when setup tilted.
Tilt appears to be ~14° based on Vanatoo's diagram:
View attachment 504233
Height would therefore go from 190.5 to 183mm.

Nice, both the heights in the frame of what I need.

I would strongly consider the Kali IN-UNF. The "weird form-factor" is pretty much ideal considering your space limitations, and when set up correctly they perform extremely well, better than any of the extremely compact "normal" bookshelf models.

Thanks for reply,
First, their price is something like $947 (Closed to Genelec)
Second, from what I saw the subwoofer need to be on the desk too? I barely have space for speakers, then for subwoofer?

 

[staticV3]

They don't mention in their website the height with the tilt open, but I saw 2 different images,
https://cdn.shortpixel.ai/spai/q_lo...om/storage/2021/08/iLoud-Micro-Dimensions.jpg (Source)
According to this image they say, with the tilt open it's 18cm height.

That looks super low effort, I highly doubt they spent a single thought on this and just copied the MFR numbers and pics

10° isn't enough?

Depends entirely on your seating arrangement.
The closer you sit to the speakers and the lower the tweeters are mounted, the more tilt you need.

Then with the S2 stands of Kanto, the height will increase by 3.4cm to 20.9cm with 16° (Source)

I don't think the numbers make sense like that.

Stands S2, S3, S4 all seem to keep the bottom rear edge of the speaker roughly in contact with the desk, and all of them apply 16° of tilt.

Therefore, they will all raise the ORA's upper front edge to the same height.

The height numbers below each stand are just a function of how deep the platform is which the speakers stand on.

They do not have any bearing on how tall the speaker will end up as after tilt.

 

[ChaoscripT]

That looks super low effort, I highly doubt they spent a single thought on this and just copied the MFR numbers and pics

Because of that I bring the other image as well.

I don't think the numbers make sense like that.

Stands S2, S3, S4 all seem to keep the bottom rear edge of the speaker roughly in contact with the desk, and all of them apply 16° of tilt.

Therefore, they will all raise the ORA's upper front edge to the same height.

The height numbers below each stand are just a function of how deep the platform is which the speakers stand on.

They do not have any bearing on how tall the speaker will end up as after tilt.

Then how much you think 16° of tilt will increase in cm?
And again Ora I can make horizontal then I think it will not be high then 20cm.

I didn't insert to list the Creative Pebble Nova,
But they also good option, but I can't connect sub woofer to them in the future.
Their height is 15.3cm, Coaxial drivers with already tilt of 45°.

 

[ChaoscripT]

So I'm start to checking maybe go with Edifier M60, why?
I've seen youtube video that compare between Edifier M60 and Kanto Ora and also some forums threads that said the difference between them not really much.
I know that it's not measurements like Amir does.
But in terms of price, the Edifier cheaper by 2x-4x then the Kanto.
The Kanto have subwoffer lineout, but I assume I can also connect the Edifier to subwoofer no?

About the Edifier,
1. There isn't a volume know which is good for me, because I prefer to control through my DAC (SMSL D6) instead of using their DAC.
2. Edifier have 2 input connections, USB-C and AUX (and also Bluetooth), so I prefer to use AUX, I can use TRS to AUX cable? or prefer RCA to AUX?
3. If I want in future to connect subwoofer, I can do it via DAC?

@staticV3
I've send email to Kanto about the height of the Kanto Ora on S2 stand, they answered 8.2" which is 20.8cm.

@antcollinet
I must say thank you,
I've downloaded APO equalizer and Peace at start but I saw that it's not dynamic, so I switched to SoundFX, now at volume 5 finally I hear something, then thanks again.
Here are my settings,

Screenshot

Captured with Lightshot

prnt.sc

Regards.

 

[staticV3]

Then how much you think 16° of tilt will increase in cm?

 

[staticV3]

The Kanto have subwoffer lineout, but I assume I can also connect the Edifier to subwoofer no?

Three options:

• Your Sub has Satellite output/Passthrough Line output: Do PC->Sub->Edifier
• You have an external Crossover (e.g. 2x4HD): Do PC->Crossover->All speakers
• Your Sub has no passthrough and you have no external Crossover->Do PC->DAC->2x RCA Splitter cable->L1+R1 to Edifier, L2+R2 to Sub
  ->Con: can't high-pass the Edifier for a clean crossover. You'll have to adjust the Sub LPF to match the Edifier natural bass roll-off as best as you can.

I can use TRS to AUX cable?

No. Only RCA can be cleanly converted to Aux.

I've send email to Kanto about the height of the Kanto Ora on S2 stand, they answered 8.2" which is 20.8cm.

Matches my math, nice!