Need Direction in upgrading my theater

[ccapozzoli]

I had Anthony Grimani, who is great, re-designed my dedicated theater room and tune it. I currently have a Marantz 7702 mkII running through an ashly processor. I upgraded my front three to Arendal Monitor 8. Previously I had in room Triad golds. The rest of the system is Triad surrounds and 4 Triad subs all driven through Lab Gruppen amps.

I want to upgrade the system to Dolby Atmos. In talking with Anthony's group, they are offering a couple of scenarios. Upgrading the Marantz to the latest version or going Storm Audio Evo.

They are also selling me their own height speakers, which are very expensive, and if I go evo, swapping out the lab amp with a power soft audio over ip amp.

The budget between the 2 options is significant and I am looking for some feedback on going with storm audio or staying Marantz or something else?

I am also asking what surface mount ceiling speakers should I be looking at? The Grimani ones are basically cost prohibitive.$22k If they were the main then maybe I could justify.

I am really drawn to the Storm but do not have a clue about it? Is it worth it 20k!!? Is it reliable? Is it hard to program? Will this company be in business in 10 years? Etc.

once I do the upgrade, would this something that I could calibrate of should I still use Anthony? Its not i don't want to use his services, but I think if I don't purchase his speakers and equipment through him he might be reluctant to help with calibration.

Finally, I love to listen to 2 channel music and the Arendal's sound fantastic. Would moving to a power soft amp hurt the sound for 2 channel listening? I don't want that to happen. I want a dual purpose room.

If anyone has other options, ideas etc I would greatly appreciate it. This industry has changed so much I have lost touch on all the latest tech.

 

[Mort]

Most of us do not use a 'designer'. This board leans DIY. As a result you will generally get advice not to use one, and certainly not to use their proprietary monitors. This does not mean all designers are bad or they play no role in the industry.

Of the many questions you asked the most important is whether you could do this setup yourself. If you decide to, ASR will be very useful.

 

[voodooless]

I would say, save on the Storm unless you really need the specific features. What's wrong with the Lab Gruppen amps? If nothing, don't change them. Another amp won't change the sound anyway, and my guess is you already have plenty of power.

Instead, the latest Marantz AV Pre-amps should be excellent if you add the Dirac ART upgrade.

As for In-ceiling speakers, KEF will be hard to beat. If you want top of the line, go for Ci250RRM-THX. Reviewed here:

KEF ci250RRM-THX In-ceiling Speaker Review

This is a review and detailed measurements of the KEF ci250RRM-THX 3-way home theater speaker. It was sent to me by the company and costs US $2,499. Please excuse the stock picture. Mine in the plywood baffle doesn't look very pretty. I must say, I was not prepared for how substantial this...

www.audiosciencereview.com

 

[vsch]

FWIW, I also think that replacing functioning amps with new ones won't give you any improvement in sound quality, and that a Marantz AV10/20/30 would be a much more cost-effective way to get Dirac ART.

 

[Miker 1102]

I have been thinking about your post since I read it last night. I know Grimaldi has an excellent reputation but 22k for heights? Does he want to do a circular array? I cannot see how he is not upselling you. Its just a common practice.
I know a bit about sinking a good deal money on a media room and dealing with high end contractors. I just sold my last house where I had one built and used it for 10 years. I enjoyed the heck out of it but you simply do not get the money back. I just would not bite on that price unless I am missing something. I am sure you can pay his team to do calibration either way. I cannot comment on a processor but you will get good advice here.

 

[ccapozzoli]

Everyone, Thank you!! I do agree that if I just upgrade my Marantz to the latest version or if anyone has other suggestions for a Pre/Pro let me know it will be significantly better.

My original plan before I went down then Storm rabbit hole is I just replaced my front three Triad Gold speakers to Adrenal. I wanted a better 2-channel experience and the Triad Golds were not doing it. The Adrenal's are a wonderful speaker and I love the way they sound. So I was planning to replace the 3 channels up front with a new Amp (any suggestions? was thinking ATI, VTV, Buckeye) and leave the Lab amps for the surrounds

I cannot justify the price of the height speakers. If they were the front three yes, but not in-fill speakers.

Another question. I have an Ashly processor that I am in the middle of getting repaired but I have the original config files from Anthony Grimani. If I replace the 7702 MKII with a new Pre/Pro that has DIRAC-ART, do I still need the Ashly and what tolls do I need to do my own calibration?

I do agree with staying away from the Storm. Just too expensive

 

[Golfx]

Anthony Grimani knows room acoustics for certain and is a good guy. I have only read a few reviews with measurements on his speakers (one here on ASR) and the measurements were not that impressive.

It is hard to find good measurements for any ceiling speakers though. Plus there is not a lot of programed significant fidelity sound sent from the Codecs to the ceiling anyway. I do not listen to Atmos music though so that may matter to some.

Marantz vs Storm: well since both now offer Dirac ART I would just stay with the Marantz. Unless you want a lot of different speaker configurations/use contents=multiple speaker presets. Marantz will offer only two (two channel and/or full HT). Storm will offer many which “could” include differently customed tuned Bass settings for movies vs music. I use just four presets=movies, auro matic music, 2 channel music with subs, 2 channel without subs.

Both Marantz and Storm are easy to setup. Dirac ART is not easy to setup but if you watch the original calibrators it should help if you want to tweak in the future. But again the advantage of the Storm is multiple speaker presets. If you will not use more than two then just stick with the Marantz.

Regarding Storm reliability I would read the owners forum over on AVS forum.

 

[Dj7675]

I had Anthony Grimani, who is great, re-designed my dedicated theater room and tune it. I currently have a Marantz 7702 mkII running through an ashly processor. I upgraded my front three to Arendal Monitor 8. Previously I had in room Triad golds. The rest of the system is Triad surrounds and 4 Triad subs all driven through Lab Gruppen amps.

I want to upgrade the system to Dolby Atmos. In talking with Anthony's group, they are offering a couple of scenarios. Upgrading the Marantz to the latest version or going Storm Audio Evo.

They are also selling me their own height speakers, which are very expensive, and if I go evo, swapping out the lab amp with a power soft audio over ip amp.

The budget between the 2 options is significant and I am looking for some feedback on going with storm audio or staying Marantz or something else?

I am also asking what surface mount ceiling speakers should I be looking at? The Grimani ones are basically cost prohibitive.$22k If they were the main then maybe I could justify.

I am really drawn to the Storm but do not have a clue about it? Is it worth it 20k!!? Is it reliable? Is it hard to program? Will this company be in business in 10 years? Etc.

once I do the upgrade, would this something that I could calibrate of should I still use Anthony? Its not i don't want to use his services, but I think if I don't purchase his speakers and equipment through him he might be reluctant to help with calibration.

Finally, I love to listen to 2 channel music and the Arendal's sound fantastic. Would moving to a power soft amp hurt the sound for 2 channel listening? I don't want that to happen. I want a dual purpose room.

If anyone has other options, ideas etc I would greatly appreciate it. This industry has changed so much I have lost touch on all the latest tech.

Wow $22k. That is nuts (IMO). Get the system/speakers that make sense for you. Then ask him for design/consulting on where to put them and calibrate if that is what you need.
Storm is very good, but some may miss the straight forward nature of setup/daily use of a traditional AV unit like a Denon/Marants. I had Storm and went AV10 instead.
How many Atmos speakers are you looking at doing? I would say the CI250RR would be the top choice for sure. I installed 4 and these things are honestly good enough for LCR/All surrounds. Also the CI200RR looks to be great. If having to flush ceiling mount them you may have to not spread them out as far which isn’t a bad thing IMO. Might be a good idea to do them at 35 degrees forward/rearward of MLP.
I would also put the Monoprice HTP1 on your short list if not needing to exceed 16 total channels. I would have but I needed a few more channels.

 

[ccapozzoli]

Wow $22k. That is nuts (IMO). Get the system/speakers that make sense for you. Then ask him for design/consulting on where to put them and calibrate if that is what you need.
Storm is very good, but some may miss the straight forward nature of setup/daily use of a traditional AV unit like a Denon/Marants. I had Storm and went AV10 instead.
How many Atmos speakers are you looking at doing? I would say the CI250RR would be the top choice for sure. I installed 4 and these things are honestly good enough for LCR/All surrounds. Also the CI200RR looks to be great. If having to flush ceiling mount them you may have to not spread them out as far which isn’t a bad thing IMO. Might be a good idea to do them at 35 degrees forward/rearward of MLP.
I would also put the Monoprice HTP1 on your short list if not needing to exceed 16 total channels. I would have but I needed a few more channels.

Thank you for the reply. For Channels, I have LCR, 2 pairs of surrounds (2 each side due to multiple rows of seating) a pair of rear surrounds and 4 subs. So that equates to 13? When you say you needed more channels, can you tell me what your set up is? These set ups are all new to me? Just trying to get up to speed. Thank you

 

[quattro98]

Copied and pasted this post from your original question.

StormAudio ISP Evo review by Stereophile

The StormAudio ISP Evo was reviewed by Kalman Rubinson for Stereophile. It's good to see a new review from Kal and I'm glad Stereophile published a review of a SOTA surround processor given the nature of the recent article on multichannel content...

www.audiosciencereview.com

I was pointed to this thread because I want to upgrade my dedicated theater room to Atmos. Anthony Grimani who re-designed and calibrated my room is saying to upgrade to the Storm Evo with Power Soft Amps. I currently have a Marantz 7702 MKII with Arendal Monitor 8 for LCR and Triad surrounds.

I am trying to justify the cost of the Storm the Power Soft Amps and the addition to the DSP Grimani Atmos speakers. All this is very expensive. Not ever hearing a Storm setup, is this what I should be investing in or can I get similar performance going another route.

Any help would be appreciated

How many channels is your system?

The Grimani speakers & Power Soft amps seem like a very expensive option for the Atmos position. If you are able to find someone else to work on your system, you might be able to pick more less expensive gear. Even if you want to stick with Stormaudio, this might work:

New Evo processor (digital only) - use YouTube auto-translate for subtitles.

https://www.avsforum.com/posts/64457876/

Impulsion 8 amps (single channel per speaker if you get conventional Atmos speakers): https://www.stormaudio.com/amplifiers/impulsion-8

Speakers: if surface mount, maybe Arendal since you have them and like them. If in-ceiling, various options. I like KEF, Revel, and JBL.

I'd use the savings to upgrade your surrounds and ideally move to 4 subs. Would need a DAC to feed subs if going with the digital only processor which looks like it will be much less expensive than the other models. It's not even announced yet, so we don't know what it offers.

Another option would be to pick a Denon or Marantz product with the right number of channels and stick with analog amps (class D preferred) and speakers as above.

 

[Dj7675]

Thank you for the reply. For Channels, I have LCR, 2 pairs of surrounds (2 each side due to multiple rows of seating) a pair of rear surrounds and 4 subs. So that equates to 13? When you say you needed more channels, can you tell me what your set up is? These set ups are all new to me? Just trying to get up to speed. Thank you

I would say you have 7 channels, 9 speakers on your bed layer speakers. I am guessing you have the side surrounds split/duplicated somehow to make a quasi array where the side surrounds are playing the same content (do correct me if I’m wrong). With 4 subs, that would be 11 channels so far. Then you need to decide how many speakers you want for atmos… 2 (2 over MLP), 4 to cover all your rows, 5 Front Height, Center Height (above screen) and Rear Height, 6 either all tops or a combination of heights and tops.
I went with 9 channels on the bed layer…LCR, Front Wides, Surrounds (side), and Surround Back. For atmos I went back and forth on 4 or 6. I have just 1 row so decided on 4 atmos speakers. In addition, since the release of atmos, there are some atmos playback quirks. None of these quirks manifest themselves with 4 atmos speakers. I have one other difference, I have a large solid screen (119”x54”) and decided on dual center speakers (one below/one above).
So my channel count is 17 (18 speakers with dual center). As such, I couldn’t make HTP1 work.
If I understand your setup correctly, the A1H, A10H, AV10 would all work for you.
For you, you have 15 channels and are duplicating surrounds so 15 channels. You can duplicate channels within those 3 models (for your surrounds) I listed with their custom amp assign feature, which is what I am doing with 2 center channels. It might be able to be done with Monoprice, but not 100% sure.

 

[Dj7675]

Your biggest decision will be how many channels/speakers. With multiple rows, I would say most would recommend 6.

Lots of info on speaker layouts at Dolby

Dolby Atmos Speaker Setup Guides

Browse our wide-range of Dolby Atmos speaker step-by-step setup guides to find the best speaker placement and configuration for your home theater.

www.dolby.com

And although from 2018, this is still a good read.

Dolby Atmos Speaker Setup Guides

Browse our wide-range of Dolby Atmos speaker step-by-step setup guides to find the best speaker placement and configuration for your home theater.

www.dolby.com

And, while this is geared toward a mixing room setup, same guidlines apply.

https://professionalsupport.dolby.com/s/article/How-to-Design-a-Dolby-Atmos-Mix-Room?language=en_US

And RP22 Guide for best practices.

CEDIA RP22: Audio Design Standards & Best Practices | CEDIA

Learn how CEDIA’s Immersive Audio Design Recommended Practice can help professionals deliver optimal sound experiences in theaters and media rooms worldwide.

cedia.org

 

[quattro98]

It might be worth finding an independent calibrator who can help with system design and setup.

 

[ccapozzoli]

Your biggest decision will be how many channels/speakers. With multiple rows, I would say most would recommend 6.

Lots of info on speaker layouts at Dolby

Dolby Atmos Speaker Setup Guides

Browse our wide-range of Dolby Atmos speaker step-by-step setup guides to find the best speaker placement and configuration for your home theater.

www.dolby.com

And although from 2018, this is still a good read.

Dolby Atmos Speaker Setup Guides

Browse our wide-range of Dolby Atmos speaker step-by-step setup guides to find the best speaker placement and configuration for your home theater.

www.dolby.com

And, while this is geared toward a mixing room setup, same guidlines apply.

https://professionalsupport.dolby.com/s/article/How-to-Design-a-Dolby-Atmos-Mix-Room?language=en_US

And RP22 Guide for best practices.

CEDIA RP22: Audio Design Standards & Best Practices | CEDIA

Learn how CEDIA’s Immersive Audio Design Recommended Practice can help professionals deliver optimal sound experiences in theaters and media rooms worldwide.

cedia.org

Anthony Grimani is saying 4

 

[Dj7675]

Anthony Grimani is saying 4

Do you know what the angles he is going with. Or how far forward/back the atmos speakers are?
Am I correct in that you sit in the front row? Note that the second row and the bar seats won’t be getting accurate placement of sound (nothing wrong with that, just be aware). The top rear speakers will be in front of the second row and bar.
If you or you want the second row to be better, it would be a consideration to place the top rear speakers behind the second row.

 

[ccapozzoli]

If I can find surface mount ceiling

Do you know what the angles he is going with. Or how far forward/back the atmos speakers are?
Am I correct in that you sit in the front row? Note that the second row and the bar seats won’t be getting accurate placement of sound (nothing wrong with that, just be aware). The top rear speakers will be in front of the second row and bar.
If you or you want the second row to be better, it would be a consideration to place the top rear speakers behind the second row.

My seat is second row, second one in from the bottom of the page. These are his speakers he wants me to buy. Grimani ATMOS Ceiling Speaker

 

[ccapozzoli]

I like the Trinnov C1 unit. If gives you the flexibility to stay Analog and you can always go to AoIP later. What does anyone think about the sound of the Trinnov over the Marantz? It's a lot more money

 

[Dj7675]

If I can find surface mount ceiling

My seat is second row, second one in from the bottom of the page. These are his speakers he wants me to buy. Grimani ATMOS Ceiling Speaker

If you are sticking with Grimani for the design, question him on the layout if your seat in in the second row. It never makes any sense to have a rear speaker (in this case top rear) in front of you. I assume he is aware the second rom is your main listening position? Top front should be in front of that and top rear should be behind your main listening position (or all of your seats).

 

[voodooless]

I guess the main issue with these speakers is that they are directly pointing towards a seating position, instead of delivering sound to all positions. That horn will be super directional.

Seems to me, this is not a typical property for such a speaker. Not for a home cinema anyway. It probably works for a large space where those are quite far overhead.

 

[Dj7675]

I like the Trinnov C1 unit. If gives you the flexibility to stay Analog and you can always go to AoIP later. What does anyone think about the sound of the Trinnov over the Marantz? It's a lot more money

Trinnov C1 I believe is an all digital solution. If you go digital with either storm or Trinnov, you are in store for a large upgrade bill for sure. In regards to Trinnov vs Storm, this is a good read.

https://www.avsforum.com/threads/trinnov-vs-storm.3264843/#replies

If you are planning to redo your subs in a Trinnov Waveforming layout, I am sure it would sound great. If not, I would go Dirac ART.
With Trinnov… audio lock is slow from what I understand, Storm is not as fast as Marantz, but faster than Trinnov.
Trinnov, no bass/treble, no loudness compensation (Storm has these if these matter to you).
Denon/Marantz has fewer cross terms for Dirac ART than Storm which is a bit limiting vs Storm.
Denon/Marantz just work, audio lock is fast, reliable, much much easier to set up for everyday users.
Worth it is a judgement. I went the other way, back to Marantz once it got Dirac ART.