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Need an advice on a new DAC

Seriosha

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Hello, I am new here and I enjoy the content, would like to ask all the competent members here for an advice on a system upgrade.
By now I run from PC via USB to a IFI micro IDSD (no black label) and I added on the USB cable a IFI purifier 3 USB and a IFI Defender plus with the IFI Ipower 5V supply, then to the Little dot MKIII headphone amp, my headphone is the Monoprice M1060c closed headphone.
Since the poor opinion, based on measurement of course, that runs here on the Micro IDSD I would like to consider an unpgrade to the DAC that would not brake the bank but could be definitively "heared" and since we are on ASR "measured" as well.
Thanks in advance for suggestions.
 

VMAT4

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There are many options. Maybe, the Topping E30. And, you may want to get an L30 to replace your tube amp.
 
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Seriosha

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There are many options. Maybe, the Topping E30. And, you may want to get an L30 to replace your tube amp.
Thanks, I was already thinking about the L30, so do you think the E30 would be that better than my old IFI MicroIDSD that I could clearly hear it? or I should point higher?
 

noiseangel

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Not a Stella
There are many options. Maybe, the Topping E30. And, you may want to get an L30 to replace your tube amp.
Totally agree 129 bucks E30. Bargain
 

mnemonix

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By now I run from PC via USB to a IFI micro IDSD (no black label) and I added on the USB cable a IFI purifier 3 USB and a IFI Defender plus with the IFI Ipower 5V supply, then to the Little dot MKIII headphone amp

You've wasted £200 on IFI snake oil accessories, and now want to improve on a relatively poor performing DAC that is being run through a headphone amp that introduces a ton of distortion to your audio by design anyway?

I think you're wasting your time unless you want to throw everything away and replace it with a 'neutral' E30/L30 combo for example.

Changing your headphone will change your sound by orders of magnitude compared with dacs and amps though.

Edit: TLDR - Changing the DAC in your current setup will make no or next to no audible difference.
 
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Jimbob54

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You've wasted £200 on IFI snake oil accessories, and now want to improve on a relatively poor performing DAC that is being run through a headphone amp that introduces a ton of distortion to your audio by design anyway?

I think you're wasting your time unless you want to throw everything away and replace it with a 'neutral' E30/L30 combo for example.

Changing your headphone will change your sound by orders of magnitude compared with dacs and amps though.

Edit: TLDR - Changing the DAC in your current setup will make no or next to no audible difference.
I'd second that. No point changing anything with that amp in the chain. Keep the dac etc in place, buy an jds atom, schiit Heresy or topping L30 amp. Worry about your dac another day, or never.

You can attach the little dot to the pre amp outputs of these amps and enjoy spotting the difference.
 
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Seriosha

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You've wasted £200 on IFI snake oil accessories, and now want to improve on a relatively poor performing DAC that is being run through a headphone amp that introduces a ton of distortion to your audio by design anyway?

I think you're wasting your time unless you want to throw everything away and replace it with a 'neutral' E30/L30 combo for example.

Changing your headphone will change your sound by orders of magnitude compared with dacs and amps though.

Edit: TLDR - Changing the DAC in your current setup will make no or next to no audible difference.

Well, Snake Oil made a audible difference and got rid of a ground loop probably derived by the PC, anyway thanks for the suggestion.
I was trying to be conservative on the hardware but yours is a good advice: so L 30 is the priority.
 

mnemonix

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I'm glad it cured your ground loop.

You don't say what it is you want to achieve for yourself. Measurement and the opinion of ASR doesn't directly translate into something that audibly satisfies you. What don't you like about your current setup that you would like to change? Some people *like* the distortion introduced by tubes or other poorly measuring equipment. That is sufficient justification for using it, though ASR might suggest starting with a clean signal and adding colouration to taste using EQ/DSP that can also be removed or adjusted if required.
 
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Seriosha

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I'm glad it cured your ground loop.

You don't say what it is you want to achieve for yourself. Measurement and the opinion of ASR doesn't directly translate into something that audibly satisfies you. What don't you like about your current setup that you would like to change? Some people *like* the distortion introduced by tubes or other poorly measuring equipment. That is sufficient justification for using it, though ASR might suggest starting with a clean signal and adding colouration to taste using EQ or vsts that can also be removed or adjusted if required.

Thanks , that is good sense, I would like to enjoy music more ( as anyone here) and so was my idea of upgrading the dac towards something with better technology and measurement. My music come mainly from computer PCM and Tidal HIFI, and no DSD DXD or Balanced dreams...so something more correct given the tech advancement but not too analitic since the "data" is not ultra pure. Of course I like the Class A tube sound but would like to try something better...that was my idea to start with the DAC to preserve the tubes, but maybe i was wrong in priorities.
I'd like a bit of WOW effect but supported by a good tech data.
 

mnemonix

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I don't think you will be WOWed by good measurements, they simply provide a solid foundation without inherent flaws.

For me the Topping DX3 Pro DAC/Amp unit was good enough. It measures well, was cheaper and offered more features than a stack of budget separates even. I can enjoy my dynamic headphones out of it from a number of sources: Raspberry Pi streamer, Bluetooth, NAS, PC and phone, and the DAC is easily good enough for the STAX headphone system I bought as my personal 'serious' audiophile upgrade.

I haven't enjoyed music more than I currently am - but in fact a lot of that also came from looking at my music and how I interacted with it, which resulted in the streamer and a Spotify account.

I think there is a tendency in the audiophile community to look at the wrong things in persuit of satisfaction, unless of course the gear is not only the means but the end in itself.
 
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Seriosha

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I don't think you will be WOWed by good measurements, they simply provide a solid foundation without inherent flaws.

For me the Topping DX3 Pro DAC/Amp unit was good enough. It measures well, was cheaper and offered more features than a stack of budget separates even. I can enjoy my dynamic headphones out of it from a number of sources: Raspberry Pi streamer, Bluetooth, NAS, PC and phone, and the DAC is easily good enough for the STAX headphone system I bought as my personal 'serious' audiophile upgrade.

I haven't enjoyed music more than I currently am - but in fact a lot of that also came from looking at my music and how I interacted with it, which resulted in the streamer and a Spotify account.

I think there is a tendency in the audiophile community to look at the wrong things in persuit of satisfaction, unless of course the gear is not only the means but the end in itself.

Thanks, I've read good things about the Dx3pro namely been "good sounding " in another forum and I am considering it too. Do you think as a pure DAC is superior to the E30?
 

mnemonix

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Thanks, I've read good things about the Dx3pro namely been "good sounding " in another forum and I am considering it too. Do you think as a pure DAC is superior to the E30?

It doesn't sound "good" so much as it doesn't sound of anything at all. What you will hear is how your headphones present the music you feed them.

I don't know if there is a difference between the DX3 DAC and the E30 but it is likely to be inaudble. It's worth stressing again, the differences between any well engineered DAC are so small as to be inaudible, but you can check the numbers here: https://www.audiosciencereview.com/forum/index.php?pages/Audio_DAC_Performance_Index/

The only caveat with the DX3 Pro is that it was revised to fix a minor issue and as a result the headphone amp output impedance increased, which some might consider an issue with low impedance headphones. Its no worse than their top tier DX7 Pro though, and in use I would not have known had I not read about it. For me the performance is good enough to be indistinguishable from any other well designed solution, while benefitting from a compact form factor and features including connectivity, remote control and bluetooth at a sensible price.
 
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Seriosha

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It doesn't sound "good" so much as it doesn't sound of anything at all. What you will hear is how your headphones present the music you feed them.

I don't know if there is a difference between the DX3 DAC and the E30 but it is likely to be inaudble. It's worth stressing again, the differences between any well engineered DAC are so small as to be inaudible, but you can check the numbers here: https://www.audiosciencereview.com/forum/index.php?pages/Audio_DAC_Performance_Index/

The only caveat with the DX3 Pro is that it was revised to fix a minor issue and as a result the headphone amp output impedance increased, which some might consider an issue with low impedance headphones. Its no worse than their top tier DX7 Pro though, and in use I would not have known had I not read about it. For me the performance is good enough to be indistinguishable from any other well designed solution, while benefitting from a compact form factor and features including connectivity, remote control and bluetooth at a sensible price.

My headphone is rated 18 ohm....maybe can be a issue?
 

frogmeat69

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Maybe you should just try listening strictly through the iDSD built in amp for a while to get a feel for how your headphones sound through a solid state amp compared to the Little Dot. The iFi has more than enough power, so don't worry about that.
Those OTL tube amps don't seem to play well with planars. Mine has been boxed up for a while now.
 

Jimbob54

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mnemonix

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What Frogmeat said. And you know what? I'm not convinced you'd hear a difference between that and any of the upgrades discussed in this thread either. Weird huh?

Except.... shiny, new kit often sounds better to us because of expectation bias, and not only that, new kit encourages us to crank the volume and louder really does sound better to us as well, it's the way the human brain is wired and is just as much a science as the branch used to measure the kit.
 
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Seriosha

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Yep, direct to the IDSD got some nice results, very curious about the L30 now. Maybe a bit harsh sounding from what I am used to, but more "dinamic" and more "soundstage".
 
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