Need amp suggestions for LS50 Metas - options and details provided

[rask33]

I'm currently using a CXA 81 with them and while I'm new to hifi and I can't quite put my finger on it, I just don't think they match extremely well. So I'm looking to go a different route with it and I would value this forum's opinion. I understand there's lots of these particular threads already but at the end of the day there are just too many options and I understand far too little, I sort of jumped into all of this head first. So here's what I can do:

Option A:
Parasound Halo A23+
Parasound Halo P6

Option B:
1. M6si
2. M5si

Option C:
M6s PRX
M6s PRE

I've also paired them with a KC 62 sub, and may very well end up grabbing another one of those, and I need to be able to run them via a stereo connection to set a high pass filter. However I believe this can be done with the associated wireless module. The speakers are sitting on my desk and I sit about two feet from them, however it's a large room and I'll also regularly listen in positions of 10' and 20' away. I also have a thing for loud noises.

To reiterate:

• Budget: 2-4k
• Listening position: 2-20' away
• Source: PC via USB C -> B
• Main Genres: I will put just about everything through these speakers (aside from jazz). For clarity, let's just say rock/hip-hop.

Mainly I'm confused/concerned about what would be overkill for these speakers and what wouldn't, so that's why I've come to you for help. KEF recommends going up to 100w on an amp, however their powered LS50 WII has more than 300w per speaker. Thank you so much for your help. In the mean time, I will keep digging around.

 

[NTK]

Welcome to ASR!

The KC62 sub includes high pass filters for the main speakers, but you'll have to run 2 pairs of RCA cables to and from it, one pair from the pre-amp to the sub, and another pair back from the sub to the power-amp. And the KC62 only support unbalance signals.

The Parasound pre power combo also have the capability to high pass the mains, and it works with both balanced and unbalanced signals. So I would personally prefer them over the Musical Fidelity combo.

What is lacking in your proposed systems is the ability to EQ. If you use your computer exclusively as source, you can apply EQ using your computer, and all is fine. The KC62 doesn't seem to allow user customizable EQ (just 5 presets of "room", "wall", "corner" "cabinet" and "apartment"), even though it has built-in DSP, which is a shame.

So I'd think, if you don't want to always have to use your system with a computer, something like a NAD M10 or C399 with the Dirac option, or a MiniDSP Flex plus a power amp or a MiniDSP SHD Power, may serve you better.

 

[MaxBuck]

I'd be looking for a DAC with preamp function (i.e. with volume control) and a Hypex or Purifi based power amplifier. Buckeye and Boxem are two great suppliers of those amps, and they're members here.

 

[rask33]

The KC62 sub includes high pass filters for the main speakers, but you'll have to run 2 pairs of RCA cables to and from it

Would the wireless module that comes with the sub not allow this function? I know that you can get a stereo connection from it, I'm just unsure of how it would work in the context of two subs in concert.

The Parasound pre power combo also have the capability to high pass the mains, and it works with both balanced and unbalanced signals. So I would personally prefer them over the Musical Fidelity combo.

Yeah I did see that, the Parasound also has a much better DAC and the built in high pass function would unchain me from having to spend 3k on subs to do the job of a 1k sub. I'm fine with spending that much as I do really like the sub, but I'm just not sure if having another one would fully pressurize my 625sqft room or not. I've also been eying the Arendal 1961 and the Rythmik F12. Do you think having two K62s would outperform one 12" sub like that? The sub thing is what I'm mainly frustrated about now, I do like to feel the weight of the bass in my chest, it's my favorite thing about music.

MiniDSP

I've seen this recommended a lot, I would consider going that route but the system is essentially for and chained to the computer. It's a sweet computer though, I just built it last year. I got tired of using headphones and have always wanted a system.

I'd be looking for a DAC with preamp function

Why not a preamp with a DAC function, like the Parasound P6?

Hypex or Purifi based power amplifier

Why those? Is it the Class D thing?

 

[rask33]

Ok I'm leaning toward Parasound ATM and I've decided I'll return the KEF KC62 and instead get two larger sealed subs and save the money. Room is 25x25.

 

[Chrispy]

Have you considered simply adding a power amp to your integrated? It has pre-outs. OTOH not sure that those speakers can take a whole lot or put out high spl.

Why sealed subs? The KC62 in a room that large wouldn't be a good choice IMO, but duals should be better, and can help cope with the square room.

 

[rask33]

Have you considered simply adding a power amp to your integrated? It has pre-outs. OTOH not sure that those speakers can take a whole lot or put out high spl.

Why sealed subs? The KC62 in a room that large wouldn't be a good choice IMO, but duals should be better, and can help cope with the square room.

Nah I want to return the CXA 81. I'm just not in love with it. My thinking is that ported subs will be too boomy. Also they're too large and sealed subs have a better aesthetic. That said I'm in over my head man. I do want commanding, shattering base maybe 20% of the time, but musical and blended bass the other 80%. I basically just want to feel it a little in my chest.

For the majority of my listening habits, even the single KC62 is just amazing. But it DOESN'T have that oomph at larger volumes that I need. It's kind of heartbreaking tbh. Do you know anything about rythmik subs? I don't know if they have that oomph I'm talking about or not, they have the reputation to blend and I'm not sure I can have the best of both worlds. Also do larger subs perform just as well at low volumes? For the majority of my listening I'll be sitting very close to the speakers. Right now I'm considering dual Rythmik F12s or Arendal 1961s.

 

[Marc v E]

I'm not so sure your options would solve your problem. Try to measure first what's going on and then we try to search for answers to your problem. (I would suggest rew and a umik-1).

 

[MaxBuck]

Why not a preamp with a DAC function, like the Parasound P6?

Because with the P6 and similar products, you're paying for multiple functions that, if you're only streaming, you don't need. And those other functions typically degrade the performance of digital-to-analog conversion. Plus it costs more.

My philosophy is to not pay for functionality that I'm never going to need. I also prefer to keep added functionality to separate boxes as much as possible. Others may disagree, but this approach allows one to optimize performance of each function.

As to why Hypex and Purifi? Because, unless you want to pay more than $10,000, they're the best high-power amplifiers available, and they're amazingly cost-effective. If you can live with a bit lower output, the Benchmark would also be an outstanding choice.

 

[phoenixdogfan]

I would think with that kind of money ($2-4k), you could go with either the miniDSP SHD or Flex each of which would provide a complete control center plus routing and Xover (High/Low pass with selectable slopes), PEQ, and Dirac Live (vers 2 or 3), and then you could add a Purifi Amp which is the gold standard for the LS 50's (what I use myself). Alternatively, if you will just be streaming from your PC, you could buy a PC, use Roon or JRiver for crossover, routing, bus for Dirac Live or Audiolense, and buy a multichannel DAC from OCTO or Topping. This would allow you to eventually expand and create a 5.1 channel PC based home theater for streaming apps like Netflix, Amazon Prime, etc. In any case, I don't see how you could go wrong with a Purif based amp since your budget permits you to buy the very best.

 

[phoenixdogfan]

Nah I want to return the CXA 81. I'm just not in love with it. My thinking is that ported subs will be too boomy. Also they're too large and sealed subs have a better aesthetic. That said I'm in over my head man. I do want commanding, shattering base maybe 20% of the time, but musical and blended bass the other 80%. I basically just want to feel it a little in my chest.

For the majority of my listening habits, even the single KC62 is just amazing. But it DOESN'T have that oomph at larger volumes that I need. It's kind of heartbreaking tbh. Do you know anything about rythmik subs? I don't know if they have that oomph I'm talking about or not, they have the reputation to blend and I'm not sure I can have the best of both worlds. Also do larger subs perform just as well at low volumes? For the majority of my listening I'll be sitting very close to the speakers. Right now I'm considering dual Rythmik F12s or Arendal 1961s.

Why not SVS? You could find a couple of SVS SB 2000's for around $600 ea. If you get the 2000 Pro which includes phone controlled DSP, price goes up to $900, but I think most people around here can find other types of DSP, Crossovers which will do the job and provide more flexibility. A pair of SB 2000's will go to 20HZ and play at 100-105 db with SBIR. And SVS has free shipping and a great customer satisfaction guarantee. I own a couple which I pair with my LS 50 Metas.

 

[rask33]

I would think with that kind of money ($2-4k), you could go with either the miniDSP SHD or Flex each of which would provide a complete control center plus routing and Xover (High/Low pass with selectable slopes), PEQ, and Dirac Live (vers 2 or 3), and then you could add a Purifi Amp which is the gold standard for the LS 50's (what I use myself). Alternatively, if you will just be streaming from your PC, you could buy a PC, use Roon or JRiver for crossover, routing, bus for Dirac Live or Audiolense, and buy a multichannel DAC from OCTO or Topping. This would allow you to eventually expand and create a 5.1 channel PC based home theater for streaming apps like Netflix, Amazon Prime, etc. In any case, I don't see how you could go wrong with a Purif based amp since your budget permits you to buy the very best.

I don't understand the Purifi thing or this particular forum's obsession with Class D amplifiers in general. It seems to be one or two guys making them vs. an entire industry centered around producing class A/B, and the sound quality is supposed to be superior with A/B. Also the one guy making Purifi amps only sells them at 400w, which is overkill for my LS50s, so I just don't understand it.

The miniDSP is interesting for crossover control and room correction, but I don't understand it beyond that. It looks like I'll still need a preamp and a DAC on top of it? I'm also strictly keeping to a 2.1/2.2 setup with this. I won't have the need for anything else with this particular setup.

Alternatively, if you will just be streaming from your PC

That is the idea, yes. However it would be nice to play shit off my phone via BT as well.

Why not SVS?

I nabbed an Arendal 1723 today, and actually it comes with crossover control, however what I'd really like is some way to set a high pass filter on the speakers/sub so the LS doesn't have to go so low. The Paramount preamp comes with this feature, which is why I was strongly considering it. This is all starting to confuse me m8. You guys are coming at me from a bunch of different but loosely tied together angles.

 

[MaxBuck]

I don't understand the Purifi thing or this particular forum's obsession with Class D amplifiers in general.

It's because, in general, they perform better than non-Class-D at the same price point. There are a few exceptions.

Apparently you haven't read any of the amplifier tests that Amir has conducted. Maybe you should, assuming you really are looking for excellence.

 

[igfarm]

For my LS50 Metas, I'm using Hypex NC252MP-based amp with one SVS SB100 Pro sub and am generally happy with it. They are crossed at 200Hz and room corrected under 500Hz using CamillaDSP on RPi. This gives the Metas 150W of power above 200Hz, and the sub does what the sub does. I listen about 8-10 ft away usually, but the room is 15x40 ft large and they fill the room nicely. Jazz and folk mostly, with occasional rap from the kids.

 

[Gary_G]

I really like my A23+ , P6 combo with my Focal Aria 926 speakers.

 

[phoenixdogfan]

I don't understand the Purifi thing or this particular forum's obsession with Class D amplifiers in general. It seems to be one or two guys making them vs. an entire industry centered around producing class A/B, and the sound quality is supposed to be superior with A/B. Also the one guy making Purifi amps only sells them at 400w, which is overkill for my LS50s, so I just don't understand it.

The miniDSP is interesting for crossover control and room correction, but I don't understand it beyond that. It looks like I'll still need a preamp and a DAC on top of it? I'm also strictly keeping to a 2.1/2.2 setup with this. I won't have the need for anything else with this particular setup.


That is the idea, yes. However it would be nice to play shit off my phone via BT as well.


I nabbed an Arendal 1723 today, and actually it comes with crossover control, however what I'd really like is some way to set a high pass filter on the speakers/sub so the LS doesn't have to go so low. The Paramount preamp comes with this feature, which is why I was strongly considering it. This is all starting to confuse me m8. You guys are coming at me from a bunch of different but loosely tied together angles.

I use the Purifi to drive my LS 50 Metas and have for the past 18 months. It does not have too much power, and, it's completely transparent. Now I don't do blind level matched AB tests with my other Class AB amps, but I can confidently say in 18 months of use, my system seems completely transparent and free of artifacts with the Purifi Class D amps driving the Metas. I really do think it's the best amp I've owned in my 47 years as an audiophile.

 

[rask33]

I use the Purifi to drive my LS 50 Metas and have for the past 18 months. It does not have too much power, and, it's completely transparent. Now I don't do blind level matched AB tests with my other Class AB amps, but I can confidently say in 18 months of use, my system seems completely transparent and free of artifacts with the Purifi Class D amps driving the Metas. I really do think it's the best amp I've owned in my 47 years as an audiophile.

What's your preamp solution? Are you using the miniDSP? And where did you get your Purifi from? Someone ITT mentioned one that I can nab from Boxem, but it ships from Europe. Also I watched a lengthy tutorial on the miniDSP and I can see its usefulness now. I'm considering grabbing one of those as well.

 

[rask33]

I'm not so sure your options would solve your problem. Try to measure first what's going on and then we try to search for answers to your problem. (I would suggest rew and a umik-1).

Yeah it looks like no matter what I'll have to end up doing this.

 

[rask33]

I'd be looking for a DAC with preamp function (i.e. with volume control) and a Hypex or Purifi based power amplifier. Buckeye and Boxem are two great suppliers of those amps, and they're members here.

So I've been looking into this.

• Purifi
• ADI-2 DAC FS

This DAC would eliminate the need for a preamp and comes with PEQ, but based on the manual it looks like it was made primarily with headphones in mind and I'm still trying to figure out if I can use it to set a high pass filter on my speakers.

The claim on these Purifi amps is that they are entirely neutral, right? Becuase I feel like the Metas are already so detailed, and for my style of listening I don't want things overly detailed or bright. Any thoughts?

 

[Chrispy]

Nah I want to return the CXA 81. I'm just not in love with it. My thinking is that ported subs will be too boomy. Also they're too large and sealed subs have a better aesthetic. That said I'm in over my head man. I do want commanding, shattering base maybe 20% of the time, but musical and blended bass the other 80%. I basically just want to feel it a little in my chest.

For the majority of my listening habits, even the single KC62 is just amazing. But it DOESN'T have that oomph at larger volumes that I need. It's kind of heartbreaking tbh. Do you know anything about rythmik subs? I don't know if they have that oomph I'm talking about or not, they have the reputation to blend and I'm not sure I can have the best of both worlds. Also do larger subs perform just as well at low volumes? For the majority of my listening I'll be sitting very close to the speakers. Right now I'm considering dual Rythmik F12s or Arendal 1961s.

Ported subs aren't by nature "boomy"....maybe cheap/poorly designed ones, or poorly setup ones, tho. Ported are larger, true, but depends on what compromises you need to make. The KC62 with dual 6.5" woofers can only do so much, particularly in larger rooms. Rythmik, Monolith, Hsu, SVS and others, even Arendal, are good choices for subs depending on what you can fit/afford. Why would a larger sub have trouble at low volume?

OTOH if you really like loud, why are you using the LS50s? They're not particularly strong in that respect....