Need Advice: Should I Upgrade My Amp or DAC? (Wharfedale EVO 5.4 + Fosi V3 Mono)

[Redacted]

Class AB for the win! It simply sounds better, natural, with natural weight behind the lows. Class A is where magic lives

End of thread for me!
Enjoy your detailed blind tests.

 

[Paul7777x]

Class AB for the win! It simply sounds better, natural, with natural weight behind the lows. Class A is where magic lives

 

[Hapo]

...IMHO one should add the harmonic distortion before signal gets to amp...amp should be "clinical"...

...that what Hapo does...one can easily change source...

...we just bought Purifi 6525 amp, and it sounds the same as my old Adcom GFA 5500, even though the AI says it sounds better...

...better as in cleaner and with more current to allow better physical management of speaker movement resulting in tighter bass and mid bass.......OK....

...one thing AI also assured me was that there would be no actual difference in sound signature (?) and I guess it got that too right as once volume levels are matched they really sound the same...(actually, Buckeye said this too)...

...other elements have vastly more effect on how stuff sounds unless one amp really suks...

 

[dcolak]

I’m sure it’s been said here many times.

And certainly should have been.

The most cost effective, and outright effective, upgrade after even a very modest outlay on basic equipment is DSP and room correction.

The ‘better’ the speakers the more important positioning and correction become.

But even with truly basic hifi, room correction is a must to get the best out of how little (or how much) you’ve spent.

Room correction does not work. Usually music becomes lifeless. Why? Because room correction is done for one specific place in the room, might sound ok in one single seating position and horrible in total-general room space.

 

[Bernard23]

Room correction does not work. Usually music becomes lifeless. Why? Because room correction is done for obe specific place in the room, might sound ok in one single seating position and horrible in total-general room space.

This is physics word soup mate.

 

[Svend P]

Room correction does not work. Usually music becomes lifeless. Why? Because room correction is done for obe specific place in the room, might sound ok in one single seating position and horrible in total-general room space.

I think it is fair to say that you are at odds with everything that has been proven about audio using measurements and blind test. No one will agree with you on this here.

 

[dcolak]

I think it is fair to say that you are at odds with everything that has been proven about audio using measurements and blind test. No one will agree with you on this here.

Please teach me. How do you do room correction for the whole room and not just for your seating position, where you actually put the measurement microphone?

 

[Roland_606]

Room correction does not work. Usually music becomes lifeless. Why? Because room correction is done for one specific place in the room, might sound ok in one single seating position and horrible in total-general room space.

This is one of your listening spaces, isn’t it? Your room correction is fighting poor speaker placement for one thing. Putting a PA monitor or dodecahedron speaker in a room corner and firing pink noise is a sure fire way to excite the room modes. We do this for commercial sound insulation testing. But we then average the sound pressure levels across the space using a sweeping motion of the microphone. If we were to measure in a fixed location then move again the values in 1/3 octave bands would likely be different in each location. Start with speaker placement, room treatment for the RT then use eq software as desired.

 

[davmol]

And it’s something you can always resell or trade-in… a fosi amp is landfill the moment you order it

I think this is slowly changing, at least with the better gear from Fosi and some of the more "established" modern Chinese brands like Topping and Fiio, where you can even trade them back to retailers for resale. My personal experience with Fosi's v3 monos and Box X5 phono stage is that I recovered 60% of my initial purchase price when re-selling used on eBay. In perspective that's fairly similar to to the Yamaha A-S701 that has been discussed in the thread, which is £699 new here in the UK and typically sells used on eBay for £400-£450.

The new kids on the block have a long long way to go yet before they can build a reputation that will compare to the likes of Yamaha. Still, it's worth remembering before these great Japanese brands had fully earned their reputations, they were also said to be making low-quality unreliable gear that's headed straight for landfill.

 

[Redacted]

Room correction does work, but is fair to say that it is at its best when you limit the corrections to a small listening area. Many users sit in the exact same position for listening every time, and don't move furniture around or (not necessarily) change the room by having 3-4 friends come round.

Personally, I don't bother as we often have 2 or three listeners in completely different parts of the room, and they may move seats/sofas. And yes, you could correct for all positions. In my case, I have a pretty easy room, and I can't stand fiddling about (I'm OCD, so it would never end).

I am also aware that in any normal room, with inherent nulls and peaks, moving your chair, or just you head, by 30cm (or even your speakers by centimetres) can make quite a difference to the sound. Not necessarily bad, but perceptibly different. It's just not "broke enough" for me to fix it - I would rather spend the money on new music or live shows! - but you cannot deny correction helps lots of people.

 

[Redacted]

I doubt most people under 50 think of Yamaha as being "up there" with HiFi anymore. Sure, a respected brand, but old.
And the idea that buying one of the newer Chinese brands is immediate landfill is utter nonsense - plenty of early adopters on ASR who are still running their kit.

A main reason for changing kit is the unprecedented pace of improving spec numbers (which always gets people to upgrade for no real reason) plus the whole music scene has changed with streaming and user interfaces and software features (+ hardware additions like serious DSPs) are constantly being improved (a valid reason to sell your older, 'new' Chinese kit). Not many people buy kit with a view to it being usable in 20 years - maybe a bonus, esepcially if you overpaid just to buy a nice badge on the front.

I remember when Japanese motorbikes first came and were thought of as flashy, eastern junk by people with Harleys and Triumphs. etc. Today, younger people tend to think of those Harleys and Triumphs as old junk that people buy for nostalgia value and middle-age crises. I make no comment on the facts or otherwise of this analogy to HiFi.

 

[dcolak]

This is one of your listening spaces, isn’t it? Your room correction is fighting poor speaker placement for one thing. Putting a PA monitor or dodecahedron speaker in a room corner and firing pink noise is a sure fire way to excite the room modes. We do this for commercial sound insulation testing. But we then average the sound pressure levels across the space using a sweeping motion of the microphone. If we were to measure in a fixed location then move again the values in 1/3 octave bands would likely be different in each location. Start with speaker placement, room treatment for the RT then use eq software as desired.

What room correction software uses sweeping microphone positions?

That room and speaker position is just fine, no drc needed Those are not PA speakers, not that I have anything against PA speakers, they can sound very good. Wharfedale EVP-X serie is surprisingly good.

 

[dcolak]

And it’s something you can always resell or trade-in… a fosi amp is landfill the moment you order it

So true, I tried selling Fosi v3 monos and it was a hard no go. Same thing with small topping dacs, I see poor people on local market trying to sell them for nothing and still no sale.

 

[Redacted]

Which used monoblocks do sell well on the 'local market', just for reference? Maybe a good tip there for some people.

With the exception of unneeded hot tub chemicals, everything I've sold on FB marketplace, including cheap electronics, has sold. Not all immediately, sure, but if priced right, sooner or later. And I live in one most deprived communities in England.

 

[dcolak]

Which used monoblocks do sell well on the 'local market', just for reference? Maybe a good tip there for some people.

With the exception of unneeded hot tub chemicals, everything I've sold on FB marketplace, including cheap electronics, has sold. Not all immediately, sure, but if priced right, sooner or later. And I live in one most deprived communities in England.

Old vintage amps are doing pretty well, people have created business around importing vintage amps from Japan.

 

[Roland_606]

What room correction software uses sweeping microphone positions?

That room and speaker position is just fine, no drc needed Those are not PA speakers, not that I have anything against PA speakers, they can sound very good. Wharfedale EVP-X serie is surprisingly good.

You wouldn’t normally use a swept microphone technique for eq your room for listening purposes. As Redacted mentions in his post #50, you are just trying to normalise your listening position not the entire room. For commercial sound testing we want as diffuse a sound field as possible. We eq out any antinodes and then use fixed and swept mic methods to get the desired reverberant field. This wouldn’t be normal for home listening unless you are designing a cinema/theatre/ concert hall.

 

[Redacted]

Old vintage amps are doing pretty well, people have created business around importing vintage amps from Japan.

The trick then, is to wait for the new brands to become vintage and then sell on 'local markets' !

Might be similar with guitars and guitar amps - if it has a badge, and looks old, people will buy any appalling old junk.

 

[Snoopy]

So true, I tried selling Fosi v3 monos and it was a hard no go. Same thing with small topping dacs, I see poor people on local market trying to sell them for nothing and still no sale.

i let go of my SMSL / Singxer stuff for around 1/6 of what I paid for it . I was close to throwing the stuff away.