Need advice on speaker placement.

[2cool4bae]

Good day everyone, first time posting here.

I had been using my speakers on my desk for some time but recently made some diy stands and got a measurement microphone. The goal was to move towards a midfield/farfield setup.

Signal Chain: PC -> Scarlett Solo -> Edifier T5s -> JBL 305p

Listening position was decided by placing the speakers in the corner and playing pink noise, the current position resulted in least nulls.

Subwoofer placement: Took a sweep at every single 12x12 floor tile with the subwoofer at listening positon. 51hz peak is present at every position in the room and only goes away when mic is raised approx 1/4th the height of the room.

Speaker position: Took measurements from 12-36 inches from front wall to the front of the speakers in 6 inch intervals. Took additional measurements 3 inch forwards and backwards from the candidate positions, working with one speaker at a time.

Candidate positions:
12 inch
36 inch
Distance between speakers slightly less than distance between speakers and MLP.
See pics attached.

Measurements:
Attached measurements are an average of 6 sweeps taken 3 inches apart to prevent a knife edge response. Room correction has been applied. 51hz peak was intentionally keep loud because I like the kick it gives in bass heavy music.

Subjective thoughts:
It is not possible to A/B test both speaker distances as it takes me around 2 mins to adjust speaker positions.

Higher clarity was expected at 36 inch due to being more nearfield, however wasn't able to discern any major differences.

Depth of soundstage felt greater at 36 inch due to more space between front wall and speakers but might be placebo effect.

Was expecting bass to be louder at 12inch due to proximity to wall, however due to room correction and a sub results in almost the same bass.

Wider soundstage was expected at 12 inch due to greater distance and louder sidewall reflections, however the whistles and clapping at the start of hotel california live on mtv 1994 seemed equally wide at both positions. The imaging of the whistles was slightly clearer at 36 inch.

Need opinion of people more knowledge than me about this.

Feel free to ask any questions.
Cheers.

 

[Redacted]

You've done what most people on ASR would recommend (measurements).
Whatever the measurements, I'd move the speakers around until it sounds good, and I'd put them either side of the table with a bit of toe-in because I'd trip over them.

 

[2cool4bae]

You've done what most people on ASR would recommend (measurements).
Whatever the measurements, I'd move the speakers around until it sounds good, and I'd put them either side of the table with a bit of toe-in because I'd trip over

The final steps of the setup is to dial in the toe and rake, I kept them toed out for measurements because i didn't want to deal with making sure the te angle was same at every position and also as far as i know toe angle has negligible effect on frequencies below 500hz which is what I was trying to dial in by placement.

Tripping over is not an issue because my room doesn't get any traffic.

 

[Redacted]

Toe angle obv. does not affect bass but can ruin how the stereo perception works if you don't get the speakers right. If you have a typical listening position in the room then why measure and EQ and then change how the speaker point - but you do you!

 

[2cool4bae]

Toe angle obv. does not affect bass but can ruin how the stereo perception works if you don't get the speakers right. If you have a typical listening position in the room then why measure and EQ and then change how the speaker point - but you do you!

You are absolutely correct and it was failure on my part to mention that the speakers did point just behind my ear when i tested both candidate positions, and the room correction measurements were also taken with the speakers pointwd towards the mic

 

[goat76]

@2cool4bae

Just out of curiosity, did your listening position where you found it sounding most balanced happen to end up close to that “rule of thumb” 38% point of the room length?

I never followed that rule myself when adjusting my listening position, as I only did it by listening, but it amazes me how close to that 38% point it was after measuring it.

 

[Redacted]

The speakers don't need to point at you or away from you, you just need to find the angle (up down, left right) and overall position where, when you close your eyes, you can't tell there are speakers there and that you can tell the positions of certain instruments in the recording (a suitable recording). IMHO, this needs to be right first. If you can't get a good stereo illusion, then your speakers are in the wrong place and/or angle. For my listening, this is more important than any subtle EQ.

 

[2cool4bae]

The speakers don't need to point at you or away from you, you just need to find the angle (up down, left right) and overall position where, when you close your eyes, you can't tell there are speakers there and that you can tell the positions of certain instruments in the recording (a suitable recording). IMHO, this needs to be right first. If you can't get a good stereo illusion, then your speakers are in the wrong place and/or angle. For my listening, this is more important than any subtle EQ.

HOLY SHIT i've never read this advice and I truly can't tell where the speakers are when i close my eyes despite knowing exactly where they are placed.

 

[2cool4bae]

@2cool4bae

Just out of curiosity, did your listening position where you found it sounding most balanced happen to end up close to that “rule of thumb” 38% point of the room length?

I never followed that rule myself when adjusting my listening position, as I only did it by listening, but it amazes me how close to that 38% point it was after measuring it.

I used the general rules like 1/5th, 1/3th and 38% as starting points the 38% showed the best results so i then just moved forwards and backwards in 6 inch and then 3 inch increments to lock in the position that gave the best results. I'm new to the hobby so I don't trust my ears enough to guide me so I relied on rew measurements.

 

[Redacted]

HOLY SHIT i've never read this advice and I truly can't tell where the speakers are when i close my eyes despite knowing exactly where they are placed.

I'm not sure if you are mocking me but... That's good, but when you close your eyes can you perceive, for example, where every item in a drum kit is in the room - like a ride cymbal being slightly outboard of the high-hat and toms either side of a snare? (Recording dependent) If so, you are well set up in terms of speaker positions.

 

[2cool4bae]

I'm not sure if you are mocking me but... That's good, but when you close your eyes can you perceive, for example, where every item in a drum kit is in the room - like a ride cymbal being slightly outboard of the high-hat and toms either side of a snare? (Recording dependent) If so, you are well set up in terms of speaker positions.

Listening to dream theater right now, I can definitely tell the drums are behind the vocals, i can feel the bass drum down low, snare in smack center, hi hat slighty left and I recall Portnoy has some toms or something in front of him above the snare which i can differentiate from the snares.

 

[2cool4bae]

To anyone reading this, I ended up settling for the 36inch position due to the slightly higher clarity/imaging.
Speakers are pointed just behind my head, distance between them is approximately 5 inches less than the distance from listening position to either speaker.
Soundstage extends well beyond the width of the speakers.

 

[Redacted]

Then move onto looking at EQ. If the sound is odd, like you get booms at certain bass guitar notes or arpeggios that fade, you need adjustments. In my book, if you cannot tell this with a variety of tracks, then don't overthink the EQ. It can be a rat-hole of endless fiddling - just play the music and enjoy.

 

[jspinks321]

I think its normal having horrible all of it starting to think it is but at least staying out of it with idle current, thats good update. And this one actually could benefit with the load box its a lot quitter with the master kinda on and using gain for volume. and using jumper plug on the outlet. think the jumper is snake oil its not it gets rid of that opens noise maybe slightly...we don't like how it works and the science..its not snake oil i think nicer speakers are quieter and ive always had some noisey stuff. but yeah have a good day. don't buy into snake oil..now that might be something to do somebody.

 

[2cool4bae]

Then move onto looking at EQ. If the sound is odd, like you get booms at certain bass guitar notes or arpeggios that fade, you need adjustments. In my book, if you cannot tell this with a variety of tracks, then don't overthink the EQ. It can be a rat-hole of endless fiddling - just play the music and enjoy.

It truly is a rat-hole and as someone with ADHD it can be truly hard so stop trying to perfect everything and just sit down and enjoy

 

[2cool4bae]

@Redacted if you were tasked with putting acoustic treatment in this room, which spots would you treat first?

People usually recommend first reflection points at the side walls as starting walls but I don't feel like it is necessary in my case as the side walls are quite far from the speakers and besides i've read that reducing side wall reflections can reduce the width of the soundstage( I prefer a wide soundstage).

I plan on putting a couple panels on the rear wall as it is almost the same distance behind the MLP as the speakers are towards the front.

 

[Redacted]

@Redacted if you were tasked with putting acoustic treatment in this room, which spots would you treat first?

People usually recommend first reflection points at the side walls as starting walls but I don't feel like it is necessary in my case as the side walls are quite far from the speakers and besides i've read that reducing side wall reflections can reduce the width of the soundstage( I prefer a wide soundstage).

I plan on putting a couple panels on the rear wall as it is almost the same distance behind the MLP as the speakers are towards the front.

I don't know anything about room treatments apart from the fact that the main listening room is controlled by my wife! She likes big rugs, 2 huge sofas, Persian rugs on walls, bookcases full of books - so job done. In my office, I find cordless power tools, plastic boxes, paint tins, on the floor, and guitars and amps and more, seems to work.