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Need advice for setup upgrades - what to upgrade first?
- Thread starter Bagi
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OP
Bagi
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- #22
For me changing the cables removed a huge amount of noise (almost everything) simply because I don't need to use those pesky 5pin to RCA
converters - for me they introduced almost all the noise I had before I changed the cables.
Mine has the DMS 240E
To my ears the FA Box X3 phono stage sounds a bit better and more to my liking but not a huge difference.
I googled a bit and found that the people that made the speakerThe Cambridge Duo is still top of the tree and if he's able to ship it, the Spartan MM stages by @Michael Fidler look to be superb. To join this and the paragraph above together, there's a YouTube vid of an AT VM95ML playing into a Spartan 15 phono stage and it 'sounds' great to me on the admittedly simple Mark Knopfler music track (forget the AT deck in the vid, as your Dual should be at least as good as that and arguably better...).
Onkyo made some good stuff I recall, but it's decades since I had any experience of the brand. Obviously, I haven't a clue as regards the speakers
P.S. I bloody HATE record weights, which actually increase load and often wear on platter main bearings (you'd be amazed how many Thorens and even Linn LP12 bearings are shagged out, but still in use even without these things, the owners in blissful ignorance and even old Regas aren't immune when the oil dries out). Your Dual may still be okay, but I'd consider not using the weight unless you honestly feel it 'sounds' better to you. Otherwise, it's audiophile fashion.
HIFISTATEMENT | netmagazine - Acapella Audio Arts
Acapella Audio Arts im Firmenportrait auf Hifistatement
Acapella Audio Arts |
www.acapella.de
@AnalogSteph you nailed the era with the 1970s.
Waxx
Major Contributor
The speakers look quiet ok, but of course can be improved. But that will cost a lot of money. But it will make the biggest difference. Idem with advanced room correction and subwoofers (even on low level for music).
The amp in general is typical mainstream hifi, not top of the line, but good enough for most. I would not change that neighter to start. I would ditch the seperate phono stage and use the Onkyo one. Those are surely lower noise than tube phono stages.
And your streaming setup could also be a lot better i think. A Wiim (Mini) streamer would be the obvious choice as they are very cheap, easy to use and on sound very high quality for it's price. It can replace the BT function of your Fosi, but can also act as streamer (over wifi) with phone remote control (less use of your phone). This is the easiest upgrade and will mainly make your system easier to use i think. Use the Onkyo integrated as preamp and use a Wiim Mini as streamer and take the Fosi out.
The turntable is hard to judge. Dual turntables were great but often break now because of age with no spare parts. I have a 601 that is unrepairable sitting in my attic for over a decade. I don't throw it away because it was my first when i was a kid. It's since long replaced by a (also old) technics. Some of the older good models are easy to find quiet cheap and would be what i would search if i was on a budget. If you can afford it and want a solid turntable new now, i would get a Technics SL100C or a SL1200 (both are expensive, but end game for me). But if yours works like it should, don't bother at this stage.
On cartridges you need to look what is compliant to the arm of your turntable. I used shure cells on mine, but those are NLA since longtime. On my Technics I use an AT-VM95En and on the other one an old but mint Stanton 500, that when worn out, will also be replaced by an AT cell. I think AT cells are now by far the best price/quality on the market and sound very neutral. Even the basic AT-VM95C is great.
The amp in general is typical mainstream hifi, not top of the line, but good enough for most. I would not change that neighter to start. I would ditch the seperate phono stage and use the Onkyo one. Those are surely lower noise than tube phono stages.
And your streaming setup could also be a lot better i think. A Wiim (Mini) streamer would be the obvious choice as they are very cheap, easy to use and on sound very high quality for it's price. It can replace the BT function of your Fosi, but can also act as streamer (over wifi) with phone remote control (less use of your phone). This is the easiest upgrade and will mainly make your system easier to use i think. Use the Onkyo integrated as preamp and use a Wiim Mini as streamer and take the Fosi out.
The turntable is hard to judge. Dual turntables were great but often break now because of age with no spare parts. I have a 601 that is unrepairable sitting in my attic for over a decade. I don't throw it away because it was my first when i was a kid. It's since long replaced by a (also old) technics. Some of the older good models are easy to find quiet cheap and would be what i would search if i was on a budget. If you can afford it and want a solid turntable new now, i would get a Technics SL100C or a SL1200 (both are expensive, but end game for me). But if yours works like it should, don't bother at this stage.
On cartridges you need to look what is compliant to the arm of your turntable. I used shure cells on mine, but those are NLA since longtime. On my Technics I use an AT-VM95En and on the other one an old but mint Stanton 500, that when worn out, will also be replaced by an AT cell. I think AT cells are now by far the best price/quality on the market and sound very neutral. Even the basic AT-VM95C is great.
OP
Bagi
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- Mar 17, 2025
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- Thread Starter
- #24
There is this great site for dual replacement parts https://www.dualfred.de ( DUAL 601 parts ).
I will look into these! Thanks!
DSJR
Major Contributor
Your cartridge is a more delicate version than mine from the late 70s, the 240E/DN241 tracking at 1.25g recommended and my 242E at 1.5g, fitted to the 500 series of decks I recall. AT seemed to have a choice of 'suspensions' for their styli and the current VM95 and 500 series models now track at a safe 2g while keeping the innards much the same. The 'sharp' elliptical profile if to spec, would arguably equate these days to the VM95ML level, the ML being the next step up from a decent elliptical profile. Sorry to be pedantic, but I have a huge fondness for Duals and now have several - cough...For me changing the cables removed a huge amount of noise (almost everything) simply because I don't need to use those pesky 5pin to RCA
converters - for me they introduced almost all the noise I had before I changed the cables.
View attachment 437242
Mine has the DMS 240E
To my ears the FA Box X3 phono stage sounds a bit better and more to my liking but not a huge difference.
I googled a bit and found that the people that made the speaker
View attachment 437248
now make theseHIFISTATEMENT | netmagazine - Acapella Audio Arts
Acapella Audio Arts im Firmenportrait auf Hifistatementwww.hifistatement.net
Acapella Audio Arts |
@AnalogSteph you nailed the era with the 1970s.
Yeah, if you had a DIN plug on the original audio cable, I well understand why you wanted to change. Mine were/are RCA, but back then, all Duals had the chassis connected to one or even both of the signal return/screens (I've not tinkered with my Dual 'stash' for a year or three now to confirm).
DSJR
Major Contributor
What's wrong with your 601? Some parts can be got in Germany (Dualfred) and also 'Fix My Dual' in the US, especially pitch and drive belts as well as the infamous 'Pimpel' which has to be the right size and profile to move the arm around on auto properly. Cartridge carriers are readily available here and there as well. The arm can take half decent MCs quite safely as well as all but the most delicate MMs from the early 70s tracking at 1g or so (I have a low minutes use V15T2 which is fine in this arm at 1g, a V15 III which the deck came with here in special 'LM' form which is another 1g tracker and on the other extreme, a mint Ortofon MC30 Super and a once divine Koetsu Black, which this arm loved until I lost a channel due to broken coil wire (EEE/£££/$$$ to repair). In the US, the 840 motor used in the 601 played silly-beggars but not in the UK and I believe there's a possible fix for that now.
Dropbox
www.dropbox.com
So, seriously and accepting the vinyl medium's negative vibes around these parts, get the effing thing out of your loft, dust it down and give it a good looking at to find out what's wrong - I'm happy to try to help from a distance and must also point you in the direction of 'Dualcan' on Vinyl Engine in their 'Dual' room who knows more about this brand than almost anyone else (he has some parts too) - I tend to live in the Garrard room over there, happy to tinker with their rather sloppily toleranced but highly stylish models which surprise nonetheless. I don't use my 601 much, as the now fifty years old 701, which got a bit crabby ten years or so back, seems to be behaving itself again now, the second system playing more host to my Garrard collection (yes, no doubt I should be certified, but I still love 'em
).
Waxx
Major Contributor
The motor is dead, and replacmenet motors are, if availeble very expensive and mostly already used and worn out (so don't last long). I gave up on that one. I have 2 very good turntables now that are better, i just keep the dual for nostalgic reasons.What's wrong with your 601? Some parts can be got in Germany (Dualfred) and also 'Fix My Dual' in the US, especially pitch and drive belts as well as the infamous 'Pimpel' which has to be the right size and profile to move the arm around on auto properly. Cartridge carriers are readily available here and there as well. The arm can take half decent MCs quite safely as well as all but the most delicate MMs from the early 70s tracking at 1g or so (I have a low minutes use V15T2 which is fine in this arm at 1g, a V15 III which the deck came with here in special 'LM' form which is another 1g tracker and on the other extreme, a mint Ortofon MC30 Super and a once divine Koetsu Black, which this arm loved until I lost a channel due to broken coil wire (EEE/£££/$$$ to repair). In the US, the 840 motor used in the 601 played silly-beggars but not in the UK and I believe there's a possible fix for that now.
Dropbox
So, seriously and accepting the vinyl medium's negative vibes around these parts, get the effing thing out of your loft, dust it down and give it a good looking at to find out what's wrong - I'm happy to try to help from a distance and must also point you in the direction of 'Dualcan' on Vinyl Engine in their 'Dual' room who knows more about this brand than almost anyone else (he has some parts too) - I tend to live in the Garrard room over there, happy to tinker with their rather sloppily toleranced but highly stylish models which surprise nonetheless. I don't use my 601 much, as the now fifty years old 701, which got a bit crabby ten years or so back, seems to be behaving itself again now, the second system playing more host to my Garrard collection (yes, no doubt I should be certified, but I still love 'em
DSJR
Major Contributor
I'm sure you've researched it, but motors do come up from time to time (isn't the 860 motor a drop-fit (with pulley swap)? Sorry, but the thing is worth getting going again, bushings for the rotor bearings can be got I believe (they used a copper thrust plate I recall) and quite often it seems, the X2 cap exploding is what stops them working and that's easy to replace.
Apologies again, I'll leave it now, but would still ask you to ask Klaus (Dualcan) for advice. It's really not a bad deck at all and in terms of isolation and so on, better than the solid-plinth far eastern types with 'soundboards' masquerading as lids if not removed when playing
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