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Need advice choosing a DAC

gregor

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Hello

Here are some details of may HIFI system.

Streamer: Squeezebox Duet
DAC: CA DacMagic
RCA cables: AntiCables
Integrated AMP: Vincent SV234
Speaker cables: AudioQuest
Speakers: Monitor Audio Silver RS6

I will upgrade SB Duet with Wiim Pro.

Do you think, I can get better sound, if I also upgrade my old DacMagic? Probably it is now quite outdated.
I was looking Topping, SMSL and other DACs. I can spend around 250 EUR, max 300 EUR for a new DAC.

Which DAC will you choose in this price range?

Thank you for your answers.

Kind regards

IMG_20230203_092952.jpg
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Willem

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I don't think there will be an audible difference. In essence, recent properly designed DACs have all been sonically transparent, and the same applies to amplifiers (or cables). Why do you want to change your streamer? What really makes a measurable and audible difference is speakers and room integration.
 

staticV3

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The DacMagic's only real issue is the awful USB input:
Screenshot_20230206-122438_Chrome.png
Source

As long as you avoid that, there's nothing to be gained from a better DAC.
 

Dunring

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If you stick with the steep filter, it's probably not going to be a huge upgrade. I like the SMSL M300 for the filter and color options to change the sound more than just filters which isn't very audible.
 
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gregor

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Thank you for your answers.

So, do you think there will be no or very little difference, if I upgrade from old DacMagic to more recent DACs?
My system is around 13 years old. Where there no improvements in DAC development in last 10+ years?

I want to change from SB Duet to Wiim Pro, so I can use Tidal.

Thank you

Kind regards
 

HarmonicTHD

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^^^ this.

In more general terms. If you want to improve sound, first invest in speakers and secondly into RoomEQ. (Electronics and especially DACs and streamers give you by orders of magnitude the worst bang for the sound buck).

So in case you want to keep your speakers, but as you are in the process to update your streamer for Tidal etc., this now is also a good opportunity to look into streamers, which have RoomEQ included (eg. Roon capable ones, or RaspPi with Moode or Volumino etc.). Ask around here, as I am not up to date on the latest streamer tech.
 
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gregor

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OK, I understand.

At the moment, I wanted to keep speakers and integrated AMP. No money for bigger investment. :(

Streames which have RoomEQ are probably much more expensive, So not an options aslo.

Maybe is then better to just replace SB Duet with Wiim Mini, which is around 90 EUR.
And save money for future bigger upgrades? :D

Thank you
 

JeremyFife

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Sounds very sensible - and it's hard to be sensible with this hobby sometimes :)
 

Bleib

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I'd choose SMSL C200. You can sell the old one and then the new one will be dirt cheap.
As others have pointed out you might not hear any difference but sometimes changing gear can be quite a bit fun.
 

staticV3

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Streames which have RoomEQ are probably much more expensive, So not an options aslo.
The WiiM Mini has Parametric EQ built-in, which can be used as RoomEQ.
It's not automatic though, so you'd have to measure your room yourself using Room EQ Wizard, then let REW generate the PEQ parameters, then enter those into the WiiM UI.
 

JeremyFife

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Note: WiiM Mini has basic 10-band Graphic EQ and not PEQ (that's on the website product page, so perhaps it's coming).
EQ has caused a few problems with bit-perfect streaming and there's not much love for it on these pages.

Adding PEQ/DSP downstream in hardware is nice to consider in your future upgrades
 

radix

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You could try a minidsp DDRC-24 for about $450 USD (i'm sure you can find used for less), if you are OK using unbalanced.

I'd first get a measurement mic (e.g. UMIK-1) and use REW to see if you have room modes you can correct and to check your reverb times. You might be able to fix those to some extent just by moving your speakers around or putting up inexpensive room treatments, if that's an option for the room. If you can't fix it "for free", then try something like a minidsp.

Room effects are on the order of several dB or more. It is much greater than the minute differences between DACs. of course, if your DAC does not support a new feature you want, then you need to upgrade.
 

xaviescacs

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The story is always the same. If you want to improve your sound significantly, improve your speakers (transducers) significantly. Then one needs power amplification to be enough given the speakers and the room, and the rest is about functionality but not about sound quality.

Also, bear in mind that some "cheap" DACs have minor issues, like pops or TV toslink incompatibility, stuff like that, and some reliability issues have been reported. Hence, I would value the reliability of the DacMagic quite a lot, it's not a minor thing for 200 - 300 bucks to be working 10 years.
 
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gregor

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Thank you for all your answers.

I will probably only change to Wiim mini (so I can use Tidal) amd save money for new speakers, AMP...

Just from curiosity, what DAC is today best buy for around 300 USD/EUR.

Thanks
 

ZolaIII

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Thank you for all your answers.

I will probably only change to Wiim mini (so I can use Tidal) amd save money for new speakers, AMP...

Just from curiosity, what DAC is today best buy for around 300 USD/EUR.

Thanks
Get MiniDSP Flex in a basic unbalanced configuration for around 475$/€ and UMIK-1. Learn to use REW and loop I/O (processor) Flex with your integrated amp. If you decide to go for new integrated amp consider Yamaha R-N803 (as power amplifier and streamer with equal loudness normalization and sub out among other things) if you can find one.
 

JeremyFife

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Thank you for all your answers.

I will probably only change to Wiim mini (so I can use Tidal) amd save money for new speakers, AMP...

Just from curiosity, what DAC is today best buy for around 300 USD/EUR.

Thanks
Sensible approach.

There's no straight answer to your question (of course!). Look at the Review Index here - recommended DACs in your price range - Topping E50 is a strong contender but there are many other things to think about.

SINAD is often used as an indicator, but there is no (absolutely no) audible advantage going above 110 (probably 100). After that you're looking at features - balanced output, headphone amp, DSP, looks - or a particularly good deal.
Topping D10 is broadly your baseline for excellence at £110 GBP - after that it's personal choice.

Good news is there are many fantastic DACs, so you'll be fine whatever you choose - but sort the fundamentals first.
 

delta76

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You probably want to sell your cables and buy cheaper ones - which work exactly the same. Then you can upgrade your speakers if you want to, which would be the best way to achieve better sound. Second best is room treatment and room correction.
Regarding DAC, choose your DAC from this list https://www.audiosciencereview.com/forum/index.php?pages/Reviews/ (filter = "DAC" and choose Recommended), but don't expect much audible improvement, if any. unless your current DAC is obviously flawed.
 
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JeremyFife

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OK, thanks.

I will start saving money for new speakers and amp. first...
So you don't get bored (and tempted); if you haven't already then get yourself a measuring mic and download REW, then start measuring your current setup. It's fascinating and you will absolutely need to do it if you want to get the best out of your new speakers.

You may (will) find out that you need some EQ and/or room treatments. These might be simple but they will make a huge difference. Plenty of people here can help interpret and advise.

Oh, I'd second that suggestion of selling your cables as long as you can get your head around it. There will be no change in your sound and you can put the funds towards those shiny new speakers :) My old interconnects paid for my DAC
 
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