Nearfield audio setup - next steps?

[Willem]

Low frequency anomalies are indeed a function of room interaction. This can be equalized. The brightness can be a function of a room that is too reflective, harsh speakers, or a small amplifier being driven into clipping.
If the sound is too bright you could use the equalizer APO software on your PC to reduce those frequencies a bit by applying a Harman style house curve.

 

[DonH56]

Nulls from room dimensions are not amenable to EQ. If 1 - 1 = 0 and you boost the signal 10 - 10 is still 0. Usually requires moving the MLP, adding subs, massive amounts of treatment, or changing the room's dimensions.

 

[KozmoNaut]

Nulls from room dimensions are not amenable to EQ. If 1 - 1 = 0 and you boost the signal 10 - 10 is still 0. Usually requires moving the MLP, adding subs, massive amounts of treatment, or changing the room's dimensions.

Yup, you just end up pouring oodles of power into a hole. If your measurements indicate a big boost needed at a relatively narrow frequency range, you need to work on your room and positioning instead. It's always good to keep in mind that +3dB requires double the power.

A narrow cut to tame a resonance is much less noticeable than a narrow boost to try and fix a null.

 

[GrimSurfer]

So - I've been on a journey to get the absolute best nearfield setup for my computer desk, without breaking the bank.

I've worked through various cheap mini amps (SMSL SA50, topping mx3) and speakers (Q accoustic 2010i, 3020i) to settle on the following setup:

Topping DX3 pro dac/head amp, Topping PA3 speaker amp, Kef LS50 speakers (plus little stands / splashed out on better but not stupid expensive cables).

I think it sounds fantastic on the desk, but keep hearing that the LS50s need 'big power' to sound at their best, and people say that the topping PA3 emits white noise at all volumes (mine is dead silent even within 3 inches of the speakers).

My listening preference tends towards 'unplugged / accoustic' vocalists with real instruments (pink floyd / tracey chapman etc).

I'm pretty fixed on the choice of speakers (too expensive to keep changing them now & I'm happy with the size / looks of the LS50), and feel that the dac is up there with little to gain under £500. But the amp?

So - amp wise - are there any suggestions on small form factor kit that would be a step up that I would actually hear? (measurements are cool & all, but I want to hear the money I spend).

Thanks

Here's something recently posted on another forum... [ignore the gear and sw, focus on the confusio and recognize the pattern of behaviour that got the OP there]

"HT has been my hobby since the late 90’s. I’ve noticed as the years go on I spend more time messing with my system than I do enjoying it. Back in the DVD days life was simpler, I would place my speakers, adjust levels to 75db and call it day, not thinking twice about it. I would just enjoy my movies. Then I purchased a Yamaha AVR which featured YPAO and the rabbit hole I was in. I bought my first AVR that featured Audyssey over 10 years ago and continued ever since with an Onkyo, Denon, then Marantz then back to Denon with a 4300. I’ve been using DEQ exclusively since but last January I started thinking about abandoning room correction all together, going back to basics. I was fussing too much. I could never get things to sound right. Going through different speakers etc. I started reading up on Toole and the Schroeder frequency which led me to invest in room treatments for my dedicated Theatre and try my hand at the Denon Editor app. When I purchased my Klipsch RP’s I was never floored by them, they sounded an awful like my previous Paradigm Monitors. Well after calibrating with the Editor app, limiting MultiEQ to 300hz and turning off DEQ my theatre sounds much, much better. I admit I was going back and fourth over the last few months spending a few weeks limiting MultiEQ then a few weeks full range with DEQ. Limited is the way to go in my room. Everything sounds more balanced with greater detail in the midrange and treble. The clarity is almost startling. The biggest thing I had to get used to was the bass without DEQ. It took some time getting used to a Flat bass response. At first I felt that I was missing out but it’s the opposite. It’s more controlled and natural now. XT32 does a very good job taming the bass. It’s no longer the focal point. Even my wife thinks it sounded better."

 

[Insearchofthedream]

Does make me smile

The thing is - I do what makes me happy in life & I'm ok with tweaking for a while until I am satisfied.

Every 5 years or so (when something has failed & no choice but to replace) I do the same - I just want to get it to that point of 'good enough for me' & then I move on & stop looking.

It's an itch. I scratch it.

My guess would be that applies to most that frequent these forums tbf.

 

[Insearchofthedream]

Ok - got the UMIK-1 and had a play with REW.

I'm not going to post up graphs of before & after - suffice to say that I applied the Harman house curve in REW & tweaked slightly to tame the bass response around 80-120 Hz, and slightly cut the 4kHz-6kHz range to bring the response more in line with the Harman curve.

While the measured responses only moved slightly, the end result that I hear is actually pretty spectacular. The sound has shifted a little more towards balanced & slightly away from the natural revealing nature of the LS50s (it's slight - but it's better).

Looks like I don't need to worry about driving the LS50's with a £90 class D amp - in a nearfield setup right now I cannot imagine better.

Thanks all - pointing me in the direction of EQ was exactly the right move.

 

[Hipper]

As those above say, the lower frequency nulls (dips) are as a rule not advisable to level - peaks though can be brought down.

I would use this as a general rule though. Nulls in the lower frequencies can be caused by any number of things. I had a wide 10dB null around 70Hz and couldn't find any reason for it. Eventually I tried adding 10dB of EQ and it levelled the frequency response. I still don't know why. Usually nulls are quite narrow and not only can't be levelled but probably there is no need as you can't hear them.

What I did, once I levelled the 30-200Hz region, was use some bass test tones to hear if things sounded level to me:

https://realtraps.com/test-cd.htm

 

[jhaider]

So - amp wise - are there any suggestions on small form factor kit that would be a step up that I would actually hear? (measurements are cool & all, but I want to hear the money I spend).

It looks like your electronics are a little simplistic. Something with built in room correction may be a good idea. Depending on how you want to feed the system, three options are ELAC EA-101 (wired digital), MartinLogan Forte (Airplay digital; Forte is the more advanced version of Paradigm PW Amp tested here); and NAD M10 (Airplay or wired inputs, but much more expensive).

If you want to keep your amp and never plan to add a subwoofer, MartinLogan Unison preamp (more advanced version of Paradigm PW-Link tested here; Airplay and wired digital inputs) with your current amp is another option.

 

[Reamonnt]

So - I've been on a journey to get the absolute best nearfield setup for my computer desk, without breaking the

Thanks

What lenght is your desk? I had the JBL LSR 305 but they hissed as I sat up close so I took them out and now have a set of MA BR2 hooked to a CA Topaz AM10 but I think the monitor audio speakers are too big. I was thinking of getting a 200cm desk as currently its 1400 as I thought it would allow for better seperation. I would like to buy a set of actives but fear the hiss would always be present.

 

[KozmoNaut]

It depends on the speaker. My Adam A5Xs had no hiss at all, even up close.

 

[Reamonnt]

It depends on the speaker. My Adam A5Xs had no hiss at all, even up close.

Thanks. I was initially happy with 305s til the hiss got to me. I will check out the Adsms.

 

[majingotan]

I use the Yamaha HS7 and it does not produce any hiss whatsoever even if its right up there with the tweeters as you can see with a simple decibel phone app. That value is just the typical noise floor level in my room

 

[Reamonnt]

Am I correct to say its accepted there is hiss with the JBL but I didnt look into it enough before purchase. I will check out those Yamaha too.

 

[majingotan]

Am I correct to say its accepted there is hiss with the JBL but I didnt look into it enough before purchase. I will check out those Yamaha too.

It's subjective for many, but I hate hissing on my speakers as I love to listen to very quiet passages and hissing makes it sound like I'm listening to AM radio or some sort. Oh, with Yamahas, I warn you that it is NOT shielded so any SMS messages or wireless phone call will cause it to make pulsating sounds within 3 feet. However, 5GHz WiFi (didn't test 2.4GHz) or Bluetooth does not induce interference though.

BTW, I listen to HS7's about 2 feet away at 85-90 dB per the smartphone app which sounds about the same average loudness as a public movie theater with the same app

 

[Reamonnt]

It's subjective for many, but I hate hissing on my speakers as I love to listen to very quiet passages and hissing makes it sound like I'm listening to AM radio or some sort. Oh, with Yamahas, I warn you that it is NOT shielded so any SMS messages or wireless phone call will cause it to make pulsating sounds within 3 feet. However, 5GHz WiFi (didn't test 2.4GHz) or Bluetooth does not induce interference though.

BTW, I listen to HS7's about 2 feet away at 85-90 dB per the smartphone app which sounds about the same average loudness as a public movie theater with the same app

Same here the hissing gets to me unless its a cassette where I expect a level of hissing. The only way appears to be to go and see the speakers and try them out but thats not always available to you in a smaller country or city.

 

[Rockfella]

The Kali Audio IN8 should be on your list too.