Nearfield audio setup - next steps?

[Insearchofthedream]

So - I've been on a journey to get the absolute best nearfield setup for my computer desk, without breaking the bank.

I've worked through various cheap mini amps (SMSL SA50, topping mx3) and speakers (Q accoustic 2010i, 3020i) to settle on the following setup:

Topping DX3 pro dac/head amp, Topping PA3 speaker amp, Kef LS50 speakers (plus little stands / splashed out on better but not stupid expensive cables).

I think it sounds fantastic on the desk, but keep hearing that the LS50s need 'big power' to sound at their best, and people say that the topping PA3 emits white noise at all volumes (mine is dead silent even within 3 inches of the speakers).

My listening preference tends towards 'unplugged / accoustic' vocalists with real instruments (pink floyd / tracey chapman etc).

I'm pretty fixed on the choice of speakers (too expensive to keep changing them now & I'm happy with the size / looks of the LS50), and feel that the dac is up there with little to gain under £500. But the amp?

So - amp wise - are there any suggestions on small form factor kit that would be a step up that I would actually hear? (measurements are cool & all, but I want to hear the money I spend).

Thanks

 

[Hipper]

I think it sounds fantastic on the desk......

……. but keep hearing that the LS50s need 'big power' to sound at their best, and people say that the topping PA3 emits white noise at all volumes (mine is dead silent even within 3 inches of the speakers).

Surely if you find it sounds fantastic then you are there?

I understand the possibility that it could be even better but can't you just enjoy what you've got?

I would say that if you want to improve things, and if you haven't already done so, you could pay attention to speaker placement and perhaps some sort of room treatment. Maybe even DSP/EQ to tinker with the sound.

 

[BillG]

So - amp wise - are there any suggestions on small form factor kit that would be a step up that I would actually hear?

I was just looking at the specs for the amp including the stated measurements, and if they're true, it's unlikely that you'll notice that much of a difference with better measuring amp, although you might hear some minor improvement in clarity.

I'd look at DSP for equalization and such first before I'd spend more money on at amp at this point.

 

[Insearchofthedream]

My problem is that just because I think it sounds fantastic right now, it could be even better - does that make sense?

Just knowing that it could be more amazing makes me want to explore options for improvement.... it’s probably a never ending journey!

 

[KozmoNaut]

I'm curious as to why you haven't looked at active studio monitors? Active crossovers, DSP and per-driver amplification has definite benefits.

A set of monitors from Yamaha, JBL, Adam, Genelec, Neumann, Focal, Presonus, Event, Dynaudio, Eve, Mackie, Kali, Equator, PMC, ATC or a number of other competent manufacturers will be perfect for nearfield usage in combination with an audio interface or DAC/headphone amp with volume controlled line outputs.

I used a set of Adam A5Xs for years in a primarily nearfield setup, and they were absolutely astoundingly good.

 

[Willem]

I also have a nice desktop system, but measurement with REW showed that even on low stands to bring the tweeter up to ear height there was still a bass hump due to the proximity of the desk. Creating an equalization graph/file to upload into Equalizer APO on the computer cured this. I think this will have a bigger sonic impact than anything else.

 

[majingotan]

I also have a nice desktop system, but measurement with REW showed that even on low stands to bring the tweeter up to ear height there was still a bass hump due to the proximity of the desk. Creating an equalization graph/file to upload into Equalizer APO on the computer cured this. I think this will have a bigger sonic impact than anything else.

You’re right about that. I have my Yamaha HS7s bass cut or room correction at -4 db + bass traps and it definitely cured this to a great extent. Adding the HS8S to the mix with high and low cuts at 80 HZ reduced woofer bloat and tremendously even out the bass extension. I could’ve done it via EQ but I prefer simplicity in the digital domain and just tinker with the analog side

 

[Willem]

With such small speakers (Harbeth P3ESR in my case) and hence reduced LF output, room modes are not a big issue. The big problem is the proximity of the desktop surface that boosts low frequency output in a way that is similar to corner placement. Parametric equalization allows for very precise targeting of the response.

 

[majingotan]

With such small speakers (Harbeth P3ESR in my case) and hence reduced LF output, room modes are not a big issue. The big problem is the proximity of the desktop surface that boosts low frequency output in a way that is similar to corner placement. Parametric equalization allows for very precise targeting of the response.

I have mine on isolated speaker stands so there’s no desk to boost/resonate bass frequencies below the speakers but I can see the issues with being rested on the desk with iso-stands

 

[Insearchofthedream]

See - you guys have inspired me! Thank you!

Investigating EQ seems like the logical next step.

Regards active speakers, that’s what I have been running for the last 10 years. I’ve gone through 2 sets of quite expensive speakers due to internal failures of the electronics... so now my preference is to keep things separate & invest in really finding ‘specialness’ in the sound.

I will still be subject to electronics failure, but will limit the exposure to lower cost individual components rather than binning whole setups at a time.

Any interest in me sharing a before / after REW?

 

[Willem]

Absolutely. Facts are always interesting.

 

[digitalfrost]

I have a similar setup. I would first get measuring equipment and correct frequency / time response with EQ or DRC. Best bang for the buck IMHO.

REW is easy to use and implement, if you mastered that look at DRC-FIR next.

 

[Jaysz]

Have you seen these
http://www.krksys.com/ROKIT-Powered-G4-Studio-Monitors

 

[GrimSurfer]

My listening preference tends towards 'unplugged / accoustic' vocalists with real instruments (pink floyd / tracey chapman etc).

What source material are you using?

 

[DonH56]

My problem is that just because I think it sounds fantastic right now, it could be even better - does that make sense?

Just knowing that it could be more amazing makes me want to explore options for improvement.... it’s probably a never ending journey!

Dealers love you but really why not spend the time and money on listening? It is never-ending, until you end it, otherwise known as a rabbit hole. You end up spending a fortune on very minor changes, not necessarily improvements, and much of the time not even that except to your eyes and wallet.

Yes, I've gotten a bit more cynical as I grew older (never have figured out the "growing up" part, however.... )

 

[GrimSurfer]

Don's right. Stay out of that rabbit hole. It goes nowhere.

 

[Insearchofthedream]

It's not really been so expensive to get to this stage to be fair - all the old kit goes up on ebay for not too big a loss, as far as a 'hobby' goes it is cheaper than the pub long-term.

I've had a play with REW last night & it looks straightforward enough - just waiting for delivery of a calibrated measurement mic so I can set to properly (hopefully over the weekend).

The first rough sweeps with REW were quite revealing, and showed on the screen what I thought I could hear & was thinking it was the amp letting me down. Lower frequency weirdness going on below 120Hz, with a boost in brightness around 4-8kHz.

My thoughts were that the brightness was a trait of the kef's, but the oddness at lower (not sub) bass I was putting down to the lower power reserves of the class D PA3 amp - now I'm kinda hoping that the REW EQ will be able to tidy that up.

Looking forward to the weekend!

 

[DownUnderGazza]

For a near field setup, this might be worth a look: https://www.sonarworks.com/reference
I use it for headphone correction and love it. The demo version is a nice option

 

[GrimSurfer]

It's not really been so expensive to get to this stage to be fair - all the old kit goes up on ebay for not too big a loss, as far as a 'hobby' goes it is cheaper than the pub long-term.

I've had a play with REW last night & it looks straightforward enough - just waiting for delivery of a calibrated measurement mic so I can set to properly (hopefully over the weekend).

The first rough sweeps with REW were quite revealing, and showed on the screen what I thought I could hear & was thinking it was the amp letting me down. Lower frequency weirdness going on below 120Hz, with a boost in brightness around 4-8kHz.

My thoughts were that the brightness was a trait of the kef's, but the oddness at lower (not sub) bass I was putting down to the lower power reserves of the class D PA3 amp - now I'm kinda hoping that the REW EQ will be able to tidy that up.

Looking forward to the weekend!

Low frequency anomalies are common in home audio setups because of room interaction. They are quite difficult to resolve. Equalization can help with nodes but not with nulls.

Brightness can be due to a number of factors, like tweeter dispersion. Equalization can tame these but they are extremely "position dependent".

 

[Hipper]

REW is easy to use and implement, if you mastered that look at DRC-FIR next.

I never found that.

REW requires various things to set up and measure, all of which can be messed up, and there are so many measurement options too. I've been using it for a number of years and still there's more to understand.

I'm not saying it's impossible but to describe it as 'easy' seems a bit generous.