Natural Sound NS17 Review (Speaker)

[Beave]

Lol... I read a article where a psychology expert stated that a corporation's operation is comparable to a psychopathic personality. I think it was a bit of a stretch but sometimes it makes me wonder.

There's documentary about corporations I watched recently, through HBO Canada I think, that opened with a rhetorical question along the lines of "If corporations are people, could we diagnose them as being psychopaths?" The answer was a definitive yes.

 

[Beave]

No, but a ruler to measure the diameter of the woofer!

Ah, so you own a pair?

 

[Helicopter]

Thanks Amir and NS. Nice to see one of the vertically integrated Chinese speakers here, especially as sent by the manufacturer and targeting the right criteria for sound.

The low sensitivity and wood woofer are interesting. Not something I would consider at the price point.

The veneer itself looks very nice.

 

[ctrl]

Ah, so you own a pair?

Only as a photo on the PC screen, but the ruler, to measure on the screen, is real

 

[Beave]

I've noticed that, with many manufacturers, the driver size quoted is the overall size, including the frame/chassis, whereas I think it should refer to just the actual cone. Is that just me?

It's common industry practice that driver size - at least for woofers - includes the frame/chassis. The measurements are typically in mm. Then for those countries still not using the metric system, the size in mm is converted to inches - and usually rounded *up.* So practically all woofers are actually a bit smaller than their listed size in inches.

From a more technical standpoint, a woofer's size is more accurately quantified by its Sd, which is related to the size from the middle of the surround roll to the middle of the surround roll (so frame not included), ie, it's related to the surface area of the moving region of the cone.

 

[Beave]

Only as a photo on the PC screen, but the ruler, to measure on the screen, is real

Can we see the Klippel measurements for your ruler?

 

[Katji]

only proof of that being promo material and a single pic that looks like a pretty bad photoshop?
sorry, i'm not sure if i buy into that claim

No. Not when claiming each unit tested.
In the case of Edifier that I mentioned, there is no claim of testing every individual unit - that is for high-end or "boutique" makers. Not for mass production. And the photos of Klippel scanner used in development were taken by blogger journalist visiting the factory. Evidence.

And btw, that driver cone looks like that wood-fiber nonsense.

 

[uwotm8]

It's pretty naive to think that every pair of speakers is measuread and then FINE-TUNED to match the reference speaker. With a chance of 99% they measure every speaker "as is" and then select and pair close matching ones. They do not declare anything other if you read it right. Actually any good manufacturer works on matching more or less.

Decade or two ago, as example, Dynaudio declared that they select matching pairs of drivers for pair of speakers at the very start and then check assembling speakers at few points, then at the end every speakes is fast-measured to pass QC tolerances. No exact tolerances for home speakers been told but IIRC their professional models were meant to match within 1.5 dB (while being sold separately, not in pairs).

 

[AudioSceptic]

It's common industry practice that driver size - at least for woofers - includes the frame/chassis. The measurements are typically in mm. Then for those countries still not using the metric system, the size in mm is converted to inches - and usually rounded *up.* So practically all woofers are actually a bit smaller than their listed size in inches.

From a more technical standpoint, a woofer's size is more accurately quantified by its Sd, which is related to the size from the middle of the surround roll to the middle of the surround roll (so frame not included), ie, it's related to the surface area of the moving region of the cone.

That makes sense. For tweeters, of course, to include the chassis (there's usually a large mounting plate) would be strange so I think in this case the size quoted is usually the actual size of the dome.

 

[Spocko]

That's a "boutique" speaker if I've ever seen one. The speaker has a nice visual appeal compared to the all black designs that seem to dominate the market - at least in my price range. Additionally, the contrast between the black face of the speaker and the wood mid/woofer makes the driver appear much smaller than it is. I thought the speaker has a 4" mid/woofer but according to the mfg. it is 6.5" driver. Overall It seems the mfg. is just a few tweaks away from having a really competitive speaker.

If they were going for the boutique look with some compromises to sound, they could've done a whole lot more than glossy zebra wood veneer. How about curved box non-parallel lines (like the Revel monitors) or a solid looking block of aluminum (like Magico).

 

[Theriverlethe]

Were they attempting an X-curve response? I don't know why anyone would do that in 2021, but it might provide a rationale.

 

[amirm]

Gosh. There is no easy customisation possible?

The export is the entire 3-D sound field for each frequency. The only thing that reduces it is going below 5 degree separation. It is enough information to visualize every frequency like this:

The only way to reduce it is to plot at less than 5 degree separation. But then that makes it rather coarse.

 

[jerryzhang]

Hi, everyone! I am Jerry Zhang from China. I am CEO of NatureSound company, NS17 is developed by us.
I'm so glad to see the report of my NS17, it is very very comprehensive and professional and learn many method and knowledge from it and your discuss.
Thank you so much!!! Thank you everyone!!!
May I explain something.

 

[jerryzhang]

Answer some confusion:

1. the woofer of NS17 is real 6.5', I just double check it. Even it look little small because there is a 6 mm thickness aluminium cover it. you can see it is much bigger than the tweeter:

2. the speaker diaphragm is real wood, but it is not pure wood, we call it composite sandwich diaphragm, 2 wood diaphragm and 1 glass fiber with more than 20 process about 3 days by hand-made;

3. we have anechoic chamber, not only 1, but 2 anechoic chambers. 1 is from my speaker supplier you already see, another one is from my loudspeaker assemble supplier such as below. every my loudspeaker need test in this anechoic chamber for control FR curve with in 1db.

the loudspeaker is NS16
another one is from my speaker supplier, but I can't using it anytime, because the factory is too big to my order. I still can using it if I need, but sometime for waiting 1 or 2 weeks.

the loudspeaker is NS15

4. about sensitivity, it should be 87db@1000Hz, and I had asked the question to test engineer: why the sensitivity on your report seen lower than my other anechoic chambers? He answer me because he just test another big loudspeaker and not move the mic and platform，so the distance was more than 1 meter. so, I give it. I will test one sample again and correct it if it should be mean of FR curve?

OK, that's all. let me give more information to discuss and learn how to measurement the loudspeaker. I can't wait to improve it
I love this place!

 

[jerryzhang]

Honest I am a little shocked when I see the FR of NS17, it looks strange. the peak is more higher and ravine is lower, not more, only 1-2db, but it seen different. I will test another sample in the anechoic chamber asap for confirm this problem.
One reason maybe for too more move and shipped process. The sample to you is not from factory directly, but first from factory to my domestic distributor, and to oversea distributor, and to you. shipping and packing over 4 times. As you see, one appearance defect as below on the back of NS17 sample. Obviously, I can say it should happy in packing or shipping process.
Anyway, I think the test system of ASR is good and accurate enough for test loudspeaker. Next time I will control the shipment process, if still different, I will discuss with test engineer about tolerance.
hope I can provide NS15 sample for you test, I think it will better score, I will give the report for your review before shipment.

 

[amirm]

hope I can provide NS15 sample for you test, I think it will better score, I will give the report for your review before shipment.

Sure, I will be happy to test that one. Just click on my name and start a conversation when ready and I can provide address information.

Thank you for being here and answering questions.

 

[ctrl]

4. about sensitivity, it should be 87db@1000Hz, and I had asked the question to test engineer: why the sensitivity on your report seen lower than my other anechoic chambers? He answer me because he just test another big loudspeaker and not move the mic and platform，so the distance was more than 1 meter. so, I give it.

Amir's measurement also shows that the speaker is very close to 87dB at 1kHz - see green circle below.

Unfortunately, the sensitivity of a loudspeaker is not determined according to a standardized procedure. But the sound pressure level at 1kHz, is obviously not suitable to provide a realistic value.
More realistic is the average value of a certain frequency range - for example from 40-1000Hz or 300-3000Hz,...

The calculation as used by ASR flatters bass-weak speakers with a high sensitivity.

Sensitivity: 83.9 dB (300Hz-3kHz; spec: 87db)

Therefore, the 83.9dB is already, IMHO, rather questionable and 87dB goes very strongly in the direction of a "fantasy number"

Personally, I would rather determine the sensitivity of a loudspeaker as an average value over the range 40-500Hz, since the low and mid range determines how the sound is perceived - which this review has shown. This would put the NS17 at 82-83dB sensitivity. But this kind of calculation would probably cause depression in a lot of loudspeaker owners, because of their "weak" loudspeakers

Honest I am a little shocked when I see the FR of NS17, it looks strange. the peak is more higher and ravine is lower, not more, only 1-2db, but it seen different.

If we look at your own measurements compared to Amir's measurements and make the scaling of the graphs comparable, then the difference is not very big.

If your website shows the measurements of the "golden sample" and then one include driver and production tolerances, then I don't see any contradiction there at all. In fact, Amir's measurement shows that your speaker has significantly more bass than your own measurement shows.

UPDATE: Or was the BR port sealed in your measurement?

The NS17 measurements of Natural Sound and Amir superimposed:

 

[mhardy6647]

Why not determine loudpseaker sensitivity with white noise (or pink noise) and an SPL meter?

 

[abdo123]

Why not determine loudpseaker sensitivity with white noise (or pink noise) and an SPL meter?

that's the same as taking an average. i think.

 

[JohnYang1997]

Why not determine loudpseaker sensitivity with white noise (or pink noise) and an SPL meter?

Then what's the weighting on the SPL meter? Different weighting gives different results.

Another thing is that SPL meter measuring full band is much less precise than sine sweep then calculate.