Natural Sound NS17 Review (Speaker)

[amirm]

Amirm, do you have time to measure the other speaker to verify the claim?

It would be fair amount of hassle as I would have to create a fixed position for the speaker to sit to compare one against the other. NFS doesn't need this but I don't want to spend 3 hours measuring the second one.

 

[respice finem]

I guess I see an error. When I compare it to, say, the JBL 308 (for price vs. performance), there must be a "zero" too much on the price tag of this one

 

[GWolfman]

I don't think there is any other speaker company doing that.

Anyone aware of any? I can think of maybe two (Genelec? Can't recall the other at the moment...) that measure each before sending out, but not sure if it's anechoic.

 

[amirm]

Anyone aware of any? I can think of maybe two (Genelec? Can't recall the other at the moment...) that measure each before sending out, but not sure if it's anechoic.

Countless companies measure them. My point was the use of anechoic chamber for the measurements. That, is very unique.

 

[Robbo99999]

@amirm , judging by the spinorama you might have also been able to fix it by using a broad Peak Filter at around 950Hz (about Q1 or below) with about -4dB, and then perhaps at 3700Hz a Q2 Peak filter of about -2dB.

 

[thewas]

Putting the two together we get a very unique predicted in-room frequency response:

Ideal response is a sloping down one. Here, we have a flat response and then the slope. What do you think this will sound like? Not an easy question to answer.

Such wide but not continuous directivity designs which are voiced such as that their PIR just starts falling at the tweeter region (by bumping up the direct sound mids) sound bright like you also your listening tests showed

The sound was clean but bright sounding.

and give the impression of more detail, the Yamaha NS-10(M) is a famous example, https://www.audiosciencereview.com/...m-speaker-s-to-test-review.23455/#post-783855

There is clearly good effort and engineering that has gone into the design of this speaker. They have the right tools to measure and optimize the drivers and overall design.

I personally don't see a compact passive 2-way $2300 loudspeaker with significant directivity errors as a good engineering which reminds rather 1970s designs, but at least it has a nice low distortion woofer, where I would be curious to know its OEM.

Just as an historic information JVC was one of the few companies which also commercialised wooden woofer cones after finding a method to make them soft enough to press into shape by using sake wine, hicks!

 

[amirm]

@amirm , judging by the spinorama you might have also been able to fix it by using a broad Peak Filter at around 950Hz (about Q1 or below) with about -4dB, and then perhaps at 3700Hz a Q2 Peak filter of about -2dB.

That was what I started with which didn't work. Maye because it is inefficient as it is and this makes it worse subjectively.

 

[tomtoo]

Now @amirm the basshead shows what he realy likes, a 5dB bump at 120HZ. So the boom is there.

 

[Katji]

^^^That's one reason I would like to see tests of Edifier S3000PRO. Claimed 38 Hz, 6.5" driver. Much less boom [in my room] than little Q Acoustics Concept 20.

 

[amirm]

That's one reason I would like to see tests of Edifier S3000PRO.

AT $800, it is pretty expensive and ugly too. What is the appeal?

 

[anphex]

Yaaay, impulse response! Thank you so much Amir! While I think it looks okay it could probably be handled better, the attenuation after the pulse looks pretty loose. And does R = 10m mean that the pulse was generated 10ms after recording start and the pulse was delivered by the speaker 20ms after that considering the 29ms total?

 

[ctrl]

...not using a waveguide and/or having the tweeter way away from the woofer that is causing directivity errors in vertical direction.

The vertical distance between woofer and tweeter is about 0.15m, which is about the minimum distance for drivers of this size (6'' woofer and tweeter with standard faceplate). By mounting the woofer behind the baffle, the "sound generating point" is moved a little further to the rear (than with the "normal" assembly), compared to the tweeter.
All together this leads to an tilt of the vertical radiation axis and should be taken into account when tuning the crossover.

It appears to be an exaggeration to claim that is a 6.5" woofer.
I know manufacturers often (nearly always) do this, but it looks a lot closer to a 5 1/4" woofer than 6.5".

This one is claimed to be 6 1/2" but appears closer to 5 1/4

The driver has an effective piston area of about 120cm², which corresponds to a 6'' driver.

 

[amirm]

And does R = 10m mean that the pulse was generated 10ms after recording start and the pulse was delivered by the speaker 20ms after that considering the 29ms total?

No, that is just the general distance setting for the entire visualization panel in Klippel. It is not of value here.

The latency you see is the pipeline delay of the measurement system. I could try to zero it out but I didn't think it was important to do so.

 

[ctrl]

No, that is just the general distance setting for the entire visualization panel in Klippel. It is not of value here.

Does Klippel have a way to export the impulse response, e.g. as .wav?

If this file is packed into the "spinorama" zip file, it would facilitate comparisons with other speakers and allow the display of the step response.

 

[Katji]

AT $800, it is pretty expensive and ugly too. What is the appeal?

Ugly! Ok, I did need to get used to it, slightly, but it is much better than this one here. Very nice plastic faux wood, not vinyl wrap, it is some solid compressed material. But I should explain too - I hate "piano black" gloss, and fancy veneer adding $$$ cost - it is a speaker not furniture. Veneer is easily chipped and so on. What I really like is high quality wrinkle finish like well-made pro audio speakers.
It sounds very good - in my room, "my ears", etc. [And some room treatment is needed.]

Anyway, the speaker itself, there is a story behind it...I liked the idea of active speakers and someone on local forum was selling almost new Luna Eclipse with the integrated stands, cheap, and there was a lot of good subjective opinion, including one guy who builds good speakers and has the Luna Eclipse in his kitchen.
So I thought Ok, small money, fun to try. Then I saw Oh, no USB, only S/PDIF. Looking at adapters , this is getting away from my idea of Keep It Simple. So I looked at other Edifiers, only few have USB. So that's how it happened. Then the local distributor was selling at about 20% discount so I said send them.

Oh and for some time I'd wanted to try KEF LS50W. Now I lost interest. More than 2x the price of the S3000PRO. And almost certainly need subwoofer/s. [And this is in an apartment. Subs would still help the sound with the S3000 but not necessary.]
And no app nonsense like KEF.
And I'm impressed with the combination of XMOS, TI DSP and DAC and amplifiers.
The planar tweeter seems nice. Never any listening fatigue.
So now I lost interest in LS50W. ...Genelec, yes.

I can't describe how it feels to have no cables. Just 2 power cables and USB from laptop. Kleernet wireless between the 2 speakers. (Apparently used mostly in headphones.) The speaker cable and interconnect cables thing is almost a joke for me now. Almost. Maybe I would even laugh if someone suggested I upgrade the wire inside with Cardas or something.

Designed in China, made in China. Drivers and speakers designed with Klippel. You should see the factory visit article, and the interview with the founder/CEO. So after that, I like the company, seems like good philosophy. He even explains about how they moved the R&D facility to some place known for lifestyle with nature and so on, to attract best engineers.

 

[Beave]

The driver has an effective piston area of about 120cm², which corresponds to a 6'' driver.

Does this mean you have info about the driver (manufacturer, datasheet, etc)?

 

[amirm]

Does Klippel have a way to export the impulse response, e.g. as .wav?

Not that I have found.

 

[abdo123]

People should be arrested for making speakers with sensitivity lower than 85dB.

 

[ctrl]

Does this mean you have info about the driver (manufacturer, datasheet, etc)?

No, but a ruler to measure the diameter of the woofer!

 

[Pietro]

Ideal response is a sloping down one. Here, we have a flat response and then the slope. What do you think this will sound like? Not an easy question to answer.

Does the rear switch not solve the dual slope?