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Nagaoka MP-200, Ortofon 2M Bronze, or another option?

Digby

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I’m a Nag MP-300 fan.
Have you compared it to the 200? What music do you listen to? I like elliptical styli for rock/electronic, but for classical I think you need a fine line stylus or else you do get a fair bit of IGD at the end of sides. My qualm with Nagaoka is they are rather expensive (for the price, I think the MP300 should have a more advanced stylus), but they are a very enjoyable listen.
 

MJANES

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The 2M Blue is a tetchy old thing to get right and is a bit lively, very like its 520mk2 and OM20 predecessors. The Bronze (simply change the stylus) still has sparkle, but it's far better managed and I love it to bits, finding it less scrappy than the Goldring 1042 can be. The Nagaokas *to me* are too expensive for the standards I believe they achieve, but that's my vibe not necessarilky shared with others.

The AT VM95's are absolute bargains and the ML is huge raw fun (the SH is reportedly more refined), but the generators are bettered in the VM500 series. The 540 is an excellent mid priced MM type and the 740 with metal mount, more subtle (same cartrisge otherwise I believe).

The thing is, the deck and arm may begin to be a limitation on the performance of the cartridge (the vinyl hierarchy musn't be ignored here). Most of the options discussed will give a slight change of sonic flavour, but proper siting and setup can pay dividends here. I don't know the speakers, but indeed, a change here may well make an improement?

P.S Is vinyl your only source?
I located this thread while researching carts as well, and am a relative noob to the "game". To clarify DSJR, are you using the Bronze stylus in the Blue cart body? As I understand, (per Ortofon), they are two different animals due to different internals. One cart body for Red/Blue, and then a different cart body for the Bronze/Black. So you might get an even better sound out of the Bronze with the proper body designed for it? Sorry, otherwise, if I misunderstood your statement. ;)

Personally, I'm upgrading from Pro-Ject RPM-1 Carbon to the Pro-Ject Debut Pro. (I'm getting an amazing deal, otherwise I'd probably go with the Rega P3 at twice the price). I currently have the 2M Blue Stylus, (from my RPM-1), which, (according to reports), will run on the Pick-It Pro cart, since it's built on the 2M Red platform, and I will probably keep that for a bit, until I'm ready for my next upgrade. My deck is/will be plugged in to Rega Elex-R with Goldenear Triton 3's. I like the combo I have, but like many others, I'm on the journey of finding the best possible sound for the least amount of money. Thanks so much for everybody's insight! :)
 

DSJR

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I located this thread while researching carts as well, and am a relative noob to the "game". To clarify DSJR, are you using the Bronze stylus in the Blue cart body? As I understand, (per Ortofon), they are two different animals due to different internals. One cart body for Red/Blue, and then a different cart body for the Bronze/Black. So you might get an even better sound out of the Bronze with the proper body designed for it? Sorry, otherwise, if I misunderstood your statement. ;)

Personally, I'm upgrading from Pro-Ject RPM-1 Carbon to the Pro-Ject Debut Pro. (I'm getting an amazing deal, otherwise I'd probably go with the Rega P3 at twice the price). I currently have the 2M Blue Stylus, (from my RPM-1), which, (according to reports), will run on the Pick-It Pro cart, since it's built on the 2M Red platform, and I will probably keep that for a bit, until I'm ready for my next upgrade. My deck is/will be plugged in to Rega Elex-R with Goldenear Triton 3's. I like the combo I have, but like many others, I'm on the journey of finding the best possible sound for the least amount of money. Thanks so much for everybody's insight! :)
I though tthe internals were the same, but the plastic shell was a different material. Just checked and the Bronze does have silver plated wire in addition to the diamond difference to go with the slit pole pieces which was the most important thing back then. Whether silver plated wire will make any real difference, I'm not certain as the stylus was the really important 'thing' for me.

Such a shame Rega all but doubles in price in some export markets.
 

MJANES

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Yeah, the P3 in Canada right now is about $1345 CAD without a cart, and $1795 with the Elys 2. The Debut Pro, which is What Hi-Fi's TT of the year, is $1189 with the Pick-It Pro. I have one ordered, and i guess it's a Boxing Day Sale @ $868.95, (same price as Debut Evo). So, seems a no-brainer for now. And since I have the 2M Blue stylus, but no cart, even better! ;) If it turns out I'd rather get the P3 down the road, I can probably sell the Debut Pro without any loss, and upgrade to the P3. Normally I'd go through a dealer that will allow me to demo the Debut Pro at home, but this deal was too good to pass up.

As a side note, with inflation the way it is, I did manage to sell my RPM-1, with the 2M Red, for more than I paid for it (used) a year and a half ago. :oops:
 

Angsty

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Have you compared it to the 200? What music do you listen to? I like elliptical styli for rock/electronic, but for classical I think you need a fine line stylus or else you do get a fair bit of IGD at the end of sides. My qualm with Nagaoka is they are rather expensive (for the price, I think the MP300 should have a more advanced stylus), but they are a very enjoyable listen.
I have not heard the MP-200, but it has a similar construction to the MP-300. The Nagaokas do tend to be expensive, but I find them to be among the most enjoyable MM cartridges I have heard to date.

I principally listen to jazz and blues on my systems.
 
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dogberry

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I have an MP-500 and a Kontrapunkt C (which became the Cadenza Bronze). I bought the MP-500 when I was exploring various moving iron (yes, it's not an MM) pickups on the retirement of John Wright and the knowledge that my Deccas could not be rebuilt in future (I have a Reference and a Jubilee). It was actually very close to the sound of a Decca, rather lively, strong bass, good toe-tapping. It really doesn't care about capacitative loading, in common with other moving iron designs. The Kontrapunkt C is much more refined, detailed and restrained. If the 2M Bronze is anything like the Kontrapunkt C, it will be a better choice overall.
I also invested in a Grado Lineage Statement 3 and a Soundsmith Sussurro MkII. Both rather disappointing, in that they were accurate but unexciting. Turned out to be an expensive experiment, as I liked my rebuilt Reference, MP-500 and Kontrapunkt C I ended up buying a second SME 10 table (used) and have two Acoustand tonearm pods coming in a couple of weeks. I shall give homes to the London Decca Reference, the MP-500, the Kontrapunkt C, and on the fourth arm I want a mono cartridge. John did manage to sell his business at the last minute and I'm asking the new owners about getting the Jubilee rewired as mono, but if they say they won't, I'll get a Cadenza Mono. The other expense was that I tracked down a Musical Fidelity NuVista Vinyl so I can switch between all four cartridges and have the settings for each correctly remembered with the push of a button. I'm delighted with it.
 

Corvuscorone

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I have the Goldring 1012GX in the Rega P2, the Nagaoka MP-110 in the Pro-Ject Debut 3 and the Nagaoka MP-200 in the Rega P3. I think that my Ifi Zen Phono fits better with the brighter MP-200 than my Schiit Mani. The Mani sounds better for me with the warm MP-110. I would rank the G 1012GX below the MP-110 in terms of sound quality.

The MP-110 has a really pleasant and warm sound and its easy to listen to. The MP-200 is more resolving and more dynamic. It sounds more like cd. The MP-200's treble can be too bright in the wrong combination. I also tested the cheap AT-95E cartridge and even though it is an okay basic cartridge, its worse than my other cartridges in terms of sound quality. Before I had Ortofon OM5 which was the worst cartridge I have own.

I'm going to buy new phono stage for my P2 + G 1012GX combination. Any recommendations under €150? I have thought that the warm-toned Ifi Zen Air Phono would go well with it. Has anyone compared Pro-Ject, Rega or other phono stages priced at €50-150 to the Zen Air Phono? Which one have subjectively best sound?
 

Angsty

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Here are some under US$150 that Amir has tested...



 

HonestSonics

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Big thing to consider is the life of a stylus. I find it hard to justify an elliptical based cartridge once you're into the budget where microlines, shibatas etc come into play given that you're getting 800-1000 hours of life from them compared to the 300-ish of an elliptical. You could probably divert that budget for a stylus replacement into lower cap. cables and get a nice AT-VM540ML or 750SH and still have spent less overall. The 750SH is a lovely sounding thing, from my experience, as is the VM95SH for its price.
 
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