NAD T778 Audio/Video Receiver (AVR) Review

[Blumlein 88]

The price outstrips the performance here.

Yes, performance isn't terrible in AVR terms. But for $3k it is not enough. Should have been headless panther or panther reaching into the piggy bank.

 

[Brian6751]

Man....I have to jump in here one more time regarding one more product I own.

Guys, this is THE BEST sounding AVR that I have ever heard. That includes against the Denon x4500, x6500, and Marantz sr8012 to name a few.

It sounds every bit as good as my M10 upstairs. I haven't gotten to do a comparison with the same setup but I have absolutely no issue saying I bet I wont hear a difference.

There is no other AVR I would trade the T778 for.

@amirm you probably mentioned it somewhere but, why is there subjective analysis on the speakers tested but not anything else?

I like this site a lot. I think it brings a TON of value to the community but the way people react to these measurement drag races without using or hearing the products is really clouding my opinion of the reviews.

I understand people are going to say what they will say but there is no discourse to a lot of these threads and it really hurts thier value IMO

Many of these products, especially the AVR's, are "more than the sum of their parts" and grading them based souly on the measurements of a few of those parts without contrasting it against its overall realistic performance doesn't reflect upon then properly IMO.

Threads like this will influence some people to choose a Denon x3600 over the T778 thinking they will get a better sounding device and that is simply not true. I dont see how that helps people.

 

[Blumlein 88]

Man....I have to jump in here one more time regarding one more product I own.

Guys, this is THE BEST sounding AVR that I have ever heard. That includes against the Denon x4500, x6500, and Marantz sr8012 to name a few.

It sounds every bit as good as my M10 upstairs. I haven't gotten to do a comparison with the same setup but I have absolutely no issue saying I bet I wont hear a difference.

There is no other AVR I would trade the T778 for.

@amirm you probably mentioned it somewhere but, why is there subjective analysis on the speakers tested but not anything else?

I like this site a lot. I think it brings a TON of value to the community but the way people react to these measurement drag races without using or hearing the products is really clouding my opinion of the reviews.

I understand people are going to say what they will say but there is no discourse to a lot of these threads and it really hurts thier value IMO

Many of these products, especially the AVR's, are "more than the sum of their parts" and grading them based souly on the measurements of a few of those parts without contrasting it against its overall realistic performance doesn't reflect upon then properly IMO.

Threads like this will influence some people to choose a Denon x3600 over the T778 thinking they will get a better sounding device and that is simply not true. I dont see how that helps people.

Uh huh.

 

[North_Sky]

I've seen the measurements, and I also read few "subjective" reviews ...
• https://hometheaterreview.com/nad-t-778-av-receiver-reviewed/

• https://www.areadvd.de/tests/xxl-te...78-mit-bluos-modul-und-kraftvollen-endstufen/

• https://hometheaterhifi.com/reviews/receiver-processor/nad-t-778-av-surround-receiver-review/

• https://blog.son-video.com/en/2020/04/review-nad-t778/

It's up to us to make sense of it all, and nobody else.
What we see and what we hear are not always what it tastes and smells like...that's the delicate touch.

 

[YSC]

This just reassured me not to spend big money on AVRs, totally not worth it

 

[ririt]

Ah, good catch. Forgot that this test was using analog input. So the reality is worse than it looks.

Amir, if you take into account the roll-off in frequency responses, any guess of the impact on SINAD? Few dB or may be more?

 

[Vasr]

Even if you absolutely need Dirac, there are a plethora of cheap devices which will do Dirac (MiniDSP comes to mind) that are independent of an AVR, yet can be used with one.

I have already posted this earlier. It is difficult to use an external room correction box with an AVR if you want the sources to be connected to the AVR (for all the codecs to decode).

There is no way to get digital out from the AVR after the decoding to do room correctional externally with a digital input. If you take the pre-amp outs (and assuming you are ok with the ADC-DAC roundtrip in the external box and its DAC quality), you cannot attach it back to the AVR and have it go to the amps because you will need to have selected the original source to play to send its content out of the pre-outs and most AVRs doen't have the concept of a processor loop.

The only way to do this is by somehow connecting the source to the external box (after likely jumping through hoops for connector adapters, dongles, etc). They don't take HDMI and they certainly don't have all the codecs.

Cannot generalize from being able to do 2-ch PCM stereo for this application. That isn't the primary use of an AVR.

 

[Vasr]

No HDMI 2.1 support. BT requires plugging in a USB adapter. Makes no sense for $3k.

Isn't this one of the NAD boxes where the HDMI inputs are a separate plug-in card that can be upgraded? In theory, at least. I never heard of NAD bringing out an upgrade card for any of their modular systems.

 

[carlob]

There is a setting that bypasses the dac section and keeps the signal in the analog domain without adc conversion, it would have been interesting to test the analog input also that way to compare...

 

[amirm]

Amir, if you take into account the roll-off in frequency responses, any guess of the impact on SINAD? Few dB or may be more?

Oh, it is not an issue for SINAD as that is 1 kHz tone and many harmonics would be counted to 20 kHz. It becomes a problem in the one measurement where I stepped through frequencies and swept the power curve. There, as frequencies got higher, less and less harmonics were included. Up to 5 kHz, all is well but above that and especially at 20 kHz, the results are better than they really are.

 

[amirm]

There is a setting that bypasses the dac section and keeps the signal in the analog domain without adc conversion, it would have been interesting to test the analog input also that way to compare...

I spent a few minutes in the menus but did not see such an option.

Regardless, the main application is HDMI anyway so the analog input is academic for most users.

 

[Racheski]

Isn't this one of the NAD boxes where the HDMI inputs are a separate plug-in card that can be upgraded? In theory, at least. I never heard of NAD bringing out an upgrade card for any of their modular systems.

Yeah they advertise a "MDC (Modular Design Construction) offers ability to upgrade to future digital formats as they become available. Two MDC slots provided." I don't see HDMI 2.1 modules on their MDC product page, but I'm sure they will have one in the future. Still, it sucks that 2.1 is not supported natively, and I'm assuming customers will have to buy the upgraded module.

 

[Puddingbuks]

Amir, many thanks for this review. Also thanks to @Lonestar1027 for supplying the T778 - without both of them this wouldn’t be possible and we were all stuck with worthless reviews. I will make a donation soon.

I think it’s still strange to see a 3000 dollar device struggle with basic audio stuff. Is it the amount of built in amplifiers? Is multi-channel so hard to do right? Cutting costs at the wrong point? Bad engineering?

If what @voodooless claims is right:

In any case.. they even managed to botch the Hypex amps. By comparing pictures to the original Hypex OEM counterpart one can clearly see that they saved quite a bit money. Only look at the output coils... and that for such an expensive device. Real shame.

...then this is a real shame at this price-point!

So what I was afraid of, happened: a dissapointing review.

That said, I’m still not sure what to do:
- buy this T778 and think of it as “good enough”. Maybe dirac and an average sound quality will still be satisfying.
- buy a Denon X4700H, save 1500 bucks and forget about dirac and BluOS.

Oh boy.

 

[Puddingbuks]

Yeah they advertise a "MDC (Modular Design Construction) offers ability to upgrade to future digital formats as they become available. Two MDC slots provided." I don't see HDMI 2.1 modules on their MDC product page, but I'm sure they will have one in the future. Still, it sucks that 2.1 is not supported natively, and I'm assuming customers will have to buy the upgraded module.

But then again: it is mid 2020. Why no hdmi 2.1?

There will be a MDC hdmi 2.1 module I guess, but then you still have to pay a lot for it (500 dollar?).

 

[carlob]

But then again: it is mid 2020. Why no hdmi 2.1?

Are there other mainstream brand receivers with 8K and HDMI 2.1 besides Yamaha (launched a few days ago) and Marantz/Denon (launched in June)? I think pretty much all the main brands will have a 8K HDMI 2.1 updated product later in the year.

 

[Deleted member 19195]

I haven’t considered NAD as a reasonable option for years. My first separates were the 1020 pre and 2150 amp which I dearly loved. Since they’ve been building AVR’s, their equipment has been quirky and unreliable...and except maybe for the master series, pretty damned ugly as well. The T778 is one of the nicest looking AVR’s out there, but it’s underperformance, especially given its $3000 asking price, is inexcusable, and Amir’s experience with the T778 only reinforces the continuing concerns over NAD’s reliability. I really want this company to turn around and get it together, but they just can’t seem to make that happen. Very disappointing.[/QUOT

Yeah they advertise a "MDC (Modular Design Construction) offers ability to upgrade to future digital formats as they become available. Two MDC slots provided." I don't see HDMI 2.1 modules on their MDC product page, but I'm sure they will have one in the future. Still, it sucks that 2.1 is not supported natively, and I'm assuming customers will have to buy the upgraded module.

the few mdc upgrades they have offered have been painfully slow to roll out and prohibitively expensive in my opinion.

 

[SKBubba]

I was interested in this because of the Roon status, but that’s not an encouraging set of figures for the price

interesting. Did know of any roon ready avr. This is encouraging. Hope they are working with Denon.

 

[ririt]

Oh, it is not an issue for SINAD as that is 1 kHz tone and many harmonics would be counted to 20 kHz. It becomes a problem in the one measurement where I stepped through frequencies and swept the power curve. There, as frequencies got higher, less and less harmonics were included. Up to 5 kHz, all is well but above that and especially at 20 kHz, the results are better than they really are.

Amir, that is crystal clear now, thanks for this explanation.

 

[Puddingbuks]

the few mdc upgrades they have offered have been painfully slow to roll out and prohibitively expensive in my opinion.

Current hdmi mdc’s are 549 and 649.

https://www.crutchfield.com/shopsearch/mdc.html

 

[TweekinTubez]

Man....I have to jump in here one more time regarding one more product I own.

Guys, this is THE BEST sounding AVR that I have ever heard. That includes against the Denon x4500, x6500, and Marantz sr8012 to name a few.

It sounds every bit as good as my M10 upstairs. I haven't gotten to do a comparison with the same setup but I have absolutely no issue saying I bet I wont hear a difference.

There is no other AVR I would trade the T778 for.

@amirm you probably mentioned it somewhere but, why is there subjective analysis on the speakers tested but not anything else?

I like this site a lot. I think it brings a TON of value to the community but the way people react to these measurement drag races without using or hearing the products is really clouding my opinion of the reviews.

I understand people are going to say what they will say but there is no discourse to a lot of these threads and it really hurts thier value IMO

Many of these products, especially the AVR's, are "more than the sum of their parts" and grading them based souly on the measurements of a few of those parts without contrasting it against its overall realistic performance doesn't reflect upon then properly IMO.

Threads like this will influence some people to choose a Denon x3600 over the T778 thinking they will get a better sounding device and that is simply not true. I dont see how that helps people.

Honestly, this review and the responses have convinced me that that this AVR does not perform at the levels that NAD claims.

I will be returning this unit for a refund based on this review’s stated performance issues.

If a Denon at 1/3 the price performs better then I’ll switch back to a Denon.