NAD M66 - finally someone makes a decent 2-channel preamp!

[Nocko!]

The M66 is a bit like Microsoft Excel or a 911 Turbo - 99% of us will never use all the features or potential of the amp, but it’s nice to know it’s there.

@Nocko! Thanks for the correction and additional information. I agree with you, of course, that NAD should support every feature, no matter how few people might use it. My use case is more ‘typical’ and my positive comments re the brand are directed at the majority of typical users.

Oh, oh - that's a harsh comparison. Comparing the M66 with Microsoft Excel is a mean thing for the NAD...
On the other hand, with the 911s that I knew (never owned one ), everything actually worked as promised, which is why I would rather not compare the M66 with Porsche. Maybe with a Tesla?

I have owned a NAD M17V2 for about five years. It is a great machine for home cinema. I really loved it. So it is not that I "hate" (terrible word) NAD. It is more like a disappointment or a love story that ends tragically...
Nocko!

 

[Hear Here]

Attention anyone thinking of the M66 as the ideal solution if you have genuinely full-range main speakers, plus subs for "correction" purposes -

I have just heard back from NAD Support and they confirm that the main speaker output will be subject to the same crossover as the one you choose for the subs. This means that if you choose 70 Hz for the subs (as Kal did for his Stereophile review), your main speakers will not receive frequencies below 70 Hz.

I hear you say "Just don't set an XO and the Main and Subs will receive the Full range and the subs own XO can be used". Sadly no - The Subs get no signal at all unless you tell the M66 that there are subs connected and then you are compelled to provide an XO.

This seriously disappoints me as I have full-range speakers, chosen partly for their bass performance, and I would feel cheated if they were couldn't deliver these low frequencies. This is particularly galling as the M66's predecessor, the M12 (and for that matter the M32) could be set so that the subs received only bass frequencies while the main output could optionally receive the Full frequency range.

I'd be interested to hear from anyone using the M66 with full-range speakers, or for that matter which other streamer preamp they may be using that circumvents this problem.

 

[pogo]

Simply connect your subs in parallel to the main preouts. Then you have the complete frequency range at your AAs and the subs. You can make further adjustments to the subs and the AAs. However, whether this makes sense is another question.
DLART would be better for you. It could even be that the additional subs would not be necessary at all.

 

[Nocko!]

Simply connect your subs in parallel to the main preouts

Why should I buy a M66 then...?
Nocko!

P.S.: If this is a hardware limitation of the M66 or BluOS then there will never be ART for the M66. So do we have to hope for another update?

 

[pogo]

There is no hardware limitation with DLART, as the main speakers can also be integrated into the co-optimization (<150/500Hz).

 

[Nocko!]

This seriously disappoints me as I have full-range speakers, chosen partly for their bass performance, and I would feel cheated if they were couldn't deliver these low frequencies. This is particularly galling as the M66's predecessor...

Perhaps someday a few others here will understand why I am soooo dissapointed by the M66. I could tell you about my "final solution", but that would be unfair for the M66.

From my point of view the killer application within the M66 was always Dirac DLBC with four subwoofer outputs. This gives your 6 more or less independent bass channels for room correction. But if you don't want to use Dirac or if you want to use subwoofers with the analog direct function, your are lost. Then it would be better to buy any other preamp and a separate streamer. There is no need to put a streamer into a preamp.
Nocko!

 

[Nocko!]

There is no hardware limitation with DLART, where the main speakers can also be integrated into the co-optimization (<150/500Hz)

How do you know?
I am not sure but as far as I know there is only one single manufacturer that actually delivers preamps with Dirac ART. And that is not NAD. So how do we know if there is or is not a hardware limitation within the M66 that restricts the options of ART?

If the problem hear here reports (that is absolutely true, by the way), cannot be repaired with a simple update by NAD than there will never be ART for the M66.
Nocko!

 

[Hear Here]

Simply connect your subs in parallel to the main preouts. Then you have the complete frequency range at your AAs and the subs

But then you would forgo the advantages of DL and DLBC in setting up your system - and time alignment too would be lost.

Perhaps someday a few others here will understand why I am soooo dissapointed by the M66. I could tell you about my "final solution", but that would be unfair for the M66.

NAD's own words were "Regarding the subwoofer output, the High Pass and Low Pass filters can't be independently enabled. It's both or neither for the M66, currently."

The word "currency" offers a glimmer of hope - perhaps!

 

[pogo]

Correct, with DLART these limits no longer exist

 

[pogo]

DL and DLBC

When using these methods with subs, this is only possible and meaningful with x-overs.

 

[Hear Here]

When using these methods with subs, this is only possible and meaningful with x-overs.

I see no reason why the main speakers shouldn't receive a full frequency range signal, even if it has a few DL level adjustments at troublesome frequencies. DL adjusts each speaker separately.

 

[Mike-48]

Correct, with DLART these limits no longer exist

This would be a good thing. Are you in a position to know for a fact how the M66 works with DLART? Or is that an educated guess? Clearly DLART capability has not yet been released generally to M66 owners.

 

[Hear Here]

Having owned several M Series NAD devices, I've never experienced a post-initial release modification that requires changes to the User Manual. There is no mention of Dirac ART (whatever that is) in the M66 manual. The only exception - MDC Modules but again, new ones are rarer than NAD suggests when they say they will make a device future-proof! Maybe you'll have to wait for the M99 to see DL ART!

 

[Nocko!]

...Pogo is always trying to promote NAD. That's a running gag here. Don't take him and me to serious - I am the opposite: The "NAD hater!"...

Back to topic:
We mix it all together here:

1. When not using Dirac/DLBC it would be great, if you could simply send a full range signal to the main speakers. But for now, you can't.
On the other hand: There is no need to buy a M66 with its subwoofer x-overs and XLR outs if you want to use main speakers and subwoofers in parallel. You could use any other preamp with parallel outputs.

2. It does make sense to have separate subwoofer outputs if you want to use DLBC, because you can construct you own "curves" for your subs and your mains and blend them nearly perfectly. You must understand DLBC as a multi channel system. The subwoofer outputs must be separate channels with their own frequencies and own timings.
And you have to set a crossover. So main speakers that are really, really capable in bass reproduction will loose some of their power in the deep end. This is a problem but I wouldn't overestimate this because with DLBC you get a quite smooth slope.
You shouldn't think of the x-over of DLBC as a barrier but more of as the point where the main speakers can not fill the dips in the bass that are a result of the room acoustics and the position of the main speakers within the room. Even if you have the biggest speakers and never ending amp power: There will be more or less broad and deep "frequency holes" in the bass region, that you cannot fill. This is where DLBC sets in and helps to fill these "holes" with the help of dedicated subwoofers "filling" these holes from another position in the room.
Someone already wrote it somewhere: Dirac evens out the peaks, DLBC fills the dips. For this function you need a M66 or a preamplifier that supports more than two channels. I don't know any stereo (pre-) amp that is equipped with DLBC - is there? So only if you want to use this function -DLBC !- of the M66 it makes sense to buy an M66. But don't even think about subwoofers and "Analog Direct" or something like a useful home cinema bypass.

3. We shouldn't talk about ART here. I don't think that ART will come to the M66 in the next 12 months or so. You should never buy something with the hope that it will be upgraded someday to something. Reading the last rumors, I fear that even Marantz will not have ART in the near future.
If NAD is really willing to present ART for the M66, why is there no official announcement? They announced the M66 more than a year before anyone could buy one. So NAD is not ashamed to promise something that happens in the far future. But I read nowhere from NAD that there will be ART.

Taking into account the problem hear here described above, for the moment the hardware of the M66 is not able to fulfill the criteria of ART. Why should NAD implement a x-over that cuts off the bass of the main speaker when they are planning to sell ART someday? This doesn't make any sense. A few months ago I wrote here, that I think that the M66 is misconstructed. I have seen no signs that I am wrong. But: I hope that I am wrong and that all of you that already bought a M66 will get ART and the upgrades from NAD that are needed...
Nocko!

 

[Mike-48]

Having owned several M Series NAD devices, I've never experienced a post-initial release modification that requires changes to the User Manual. There is no mention of Dirac ART (whatever that is) in the M66 manual. The only exception - MDC Modules but again, new ones are rarer than NAD suggests when they say they will make a device future-proof! Maybe you'll have to wait for the M99 to see DL ART!

Future-proof is never the case, from any manufacturer, in my experience. Also, it is foolish to buy a component from any manufacturer based on promises of future improvements. I have rarely, if ever, seen those materialize.

 

[pogo]

But I read nowhere from NAD that there will be ART.

ART will probably not be rolled out widely until next year, when it will be easier to use, among other things. Here is an article about M66/ART: Link

When not using Dirac/DLBC it would be great, if you could simply send a full range signal to the main speakers. But for now, you can't.

However, this makes little sense because the additional delay of the subwoofer electronics means that you cannot get the low frequency range into sync, ... That's why Dirac Live is used, among other things.

Future-proof is never the case, from any manufacturer, in my experience

Lenbrook (NAD/Bluesound) is currently showing exactly the opposite. Who would have thought half a year ago that the old (Power-)Nodes would receive Dirac Live:

 

[Hear Here]

Future-proof is never the case, from any manufacturer, in my experience. Also, it is foolish to buy a component from any manufacturer based on promises of future improvements. I have rarely, if ever, seen those materialize.

I applaud the availability of expansion slots such as MDC used by NAD, but the claim that these will allow units to be updated to keep them competitive (implying a very long life) is bogus - no manufacturer would ever build an infinitely-upgradable product as they'd never sell later models to existing customers.

However there's a lot to be said for offering a "skeleton" device that can be added to with modules chosen by the customer depending on his particular requirements. I'd like to see a streamer preamp such as the M66, but digital only inputs, no Dirac or multi-sub facilities, but with these features and others (such as a music storage SSD card and perhaps a Roon Core card), available on MDC modules. A lower starting price but highly customisable.

On reflection, perhaps not - modules are costly so perhaps best to chuck everything into the mix to satisfy everyone and leave customers to ignore the features they don't want - precisely what NAD has done with the M66. I'd still like to see a Roon Core MDC module though, despite BluOS offering 90% of what Roon does.

 

[Stefano]

I have used Dirac since version 1, GLM by Genelec, DG58 by Accuphase, ARC IK multimedia, minidsp (almost all versions), and I find some comments a bit out of place. Before buying a product, you should have your final solution clearly in mind. I have changed all these products, I could list the pros and cons of all of them, I have spent a lot of money and time studying them, but I have never criticize those who built or sold them. If you make a wrong purchase, the problem is yours. In the end, I think the NAD M33 and NAD M66 are wonderful machines, for how they sound and what they do. There is nothing comparable in this price range. Maybe some high-end AVRs can come close, but more or less the prices are the same, but you don't have a built-in streamer like BluOS, nor the quality of the Phono or DAC. I completely agree that some features written in the manual are not present or do not work well, this is very despicable for a company like NAD, but if you are consistent, you should return the item and get a full refund or get another preamp. As I already wrote, I use my NAD M33 as a preamp and I am very happy with it, the next step will undoubtedly be the M66 because it has DLBC and because I listen to vinyl with Dirac and it now seems like a mature system, FOR ME. Do you think others don't have problems? You have to find the one that has the least, unfortunately. Take for example Trinnov Nova, it has been out for more than a year and a half and it also has a lot of bugs, and it is used in recording studios to produce music where a lot of real money is involved. Finally, the Dirac licenses are all included: Live + DLBC. We're talking about approximately €600.

 

[pogo]

I applaud the availability of expansion slots such as MDC used by NAD, but the claim that these will allow units to be updated to keep them competitive (implying a very long life) is bogus - no manufacturer would ever build an infinitely-upgradable product as they'd never sell later models to existing customers.

But NAD handles this differently, if it is possible: Link

Btw, I would welcome an MDC module for phono that offers the possibilities of a Waxwing Phono DSP or even more

 

[Hear Here]

But NAD handles this differently, if it is possible: Link

Btw, I would welcome an MDC module for phono that offers the possibilities of a Waxwing Phono DSP or even more

What I find rather troubling about that article for example:

"While many may not be familiar with MDC, its impact on NAD amplifiers and receivers is profound, playing a crucial role in prolonging the longevity of NAD components."

But do these modules actually prolong the life of the item they are used with? I think they are more to add features rather then to prolong life.

Perhaps the exception was the BluOS streamer module that could be added to the M12 or M32. This module added a feature not originally included and perhaps it extended life, but most M12 or M32 owners have moved on to M33 or M66 or other brands, because they are better, so was the M12 or M32 life actually extended? I don't think so.