NAD M66 - finally someone makes a decent 2-channel preamp!

[pogo]

Contrary to the manual, it should be possible to switch through the DL presets using the EQ button on the SRM1.

 

[markrubin]

'only audio output signal from TV is supported by HDMIeARC port'
this is unlike other Master series that displayed cover art from the HDMI port

 

[pogo]

This is also stated in the M33 manual and is not correct
Only audio output signal from TV is supported by HDMI ARC port. There is no video output at HDMI ARC port of M33.

 

[markrubin]

This is also stated in the M33 manual and is not correct
Only audio output signal from TV is supported by HDMI ARC port. There is no video output at HDMI ARC port of M33.

this was one of my original concerns as we know it works on M50.2 and M33: but testing of M66 confirms what is in the manual: no video

 

[MingChops]

i get the impression that trinnov room correction might be advantageous. i contacted Trinnnov with a ton of questions and got really good customer service.
the nova gives me everything I need . i will add my own streamer . i found a good deal . trinnov usually has the same software across platforms , so I assume that if waveforming becomes available it will be for the nova also . but the bass management seems very advanced already . i am happy not to have a screen . the nova seems to be a solid unit used by many people in studios . the nad appears to me like a shiny toy that promises too much and I am not willing to wait and be disappointed when it does not deliver . I need to get off the complaint train and listen with equipment that works .

Thanks - yeah I must say after initially dismissing it as it wasn't really aimed at hifi, I think I'm more inclined to go for it now than the NAD. I have a Node 2i anyway so same streaming interface as the M66, but with the Nova it is clearly very stable well engineered product. Just have a huge nag in the back of my mind about NAD when it comes to support and reliability (my last NAD product last 3 days before sent back it was so bad).
Trinnov rom correction is easily on a par with Dirac (perhaps even better), and the distant promose of ART vs Waveforming... who knows who'll get what I guess?! The biggest issue for me is lack of a physical remote and currently no source switching via the iOS app (big draw back).... perhaps when the time comes I'll just need to budget for the La Remote and take the cost on the chin!

 

[MingChops]

From my point of view, waveforming is a generation behind. The M66 should also get DLART this year. That will also be unbeatable with 2.0 setups. Waveforming doesn't work here and DLART is preferable in smaller 2.x setups in the living room!

You can't say that as if its fact - your NAD baises clearly taking afoot before facts here. Neither product has an implemented version of either software yet, I'll reserve judgment until there is actually something that can be tested.
Ideally one would have both products in the same room to compare, perhaps something I'll be able to do - I'm not rushing a purchase of this cost so happy to bide my time and wait to see how each progresses.

 

[pogo]

The capabilities of DLART and Waveforming are well known. DLART has been announced for the M66 in the near future.

 

[emme]

Thanks - yeah I must say after initially dismissing it as it wasn't really aimed at hifi, I think I'm more inclined to go for it now than the NAD. I have a Node 2i anyway so same streaming interface as the M66, but with the Nova it is clearly very stable well engineered product. Just have a huge nag in the back of my mind about NAD when it comes to support and reliability (my last NAD product last 3 days before sent back it was so bad).
Trinnov rom correction is easily on a par with Dirac (perhaps even better), and the distant promose of ART vs Waveforming... who knows who'll get what I guess?! The biggest issue for me is lack of a physical remote and currently no source switching via the iOS app (big draw back).... perhaps when the time comes I'll just need to budget for the La Remote and take the cost on the chin!

i am considering the eversolo as a streamer and would switch source and possibly adjust volume from the eversolo remote .

 

[MingChops]

i am considering the eversolo as a streamer and would switch source and possibly adjust volume from the eversolo remote .

I guess the issue with using a streamer like say the A8 to control volume with its analogue circuits, is you’re adding extra DAC/ADC stages than neccessary when going back into the Nova. Or, if say using the A6 or Node and are coming digital out, then you’re doing digital volume attenuation - which of course anything like the Nova is also doing, but at 64bit the Nova is probably a lot better than your average streamer which probably isn’t 64bit.

Certainly I have tested using variable volume on the Node 2i vs full volume out and using my Freya S to control volume (same external DAC both times). And there’s a noticeable difference between the two, the Node being the worst for sure. It actually made more of a difference than I’ve ever heard when say trying to compare DACs - which most of the time I can’t genuinely hear any differences between DAC’s! But the Node botches variable out IMO, so I’d be very hesitant to use a streamer to do this.

I reckon given the price of an A6, you can probably man maths the La Remote anyway you can program things like bypass and what not on it, so even for HiFi usage you can probably get some useful utility from it more than just a snazzy volume and source switcher!

I can’t believe there’s so few devices out there catering to this market though - I’d have thought if miniDSP could come out with a DLBC SHD at around £2k ish they’d clean up?! I actually thought the A8 was a big swing a miss because it didn’t include any sort of proper sub out/bass management….perhaps an A10 might come out with it!

 

[emme]

I guess the issue with using a streamer like say the A8 to control volume with its analogue circuits, is you’re adding extra DAC/ADC stages than neccessary when going back into the Nova. Or, if say using the A6 or Node and are coming digital out, then you’re doing digital volume attenuation - which of course anything like the Nova is also doing, but at 64bit the Nova is probably a lot better than your average streamer which probably isn’t 64bit.

Certainly I have tested using variable volume on the Node 2i vs full volume out and using my Freya S to control volume (same external DAC both times). And there’s a noticeable difference between the two, the Node being the worst for sure. It actually made more of a difference than I’ve ever heard when say trying to compare DACs - which most of the time I can’t genuinely hear any differences between DAC’s! But the Node botches variable out IMO, so I’d be very hesitant to use a streamer to do this.

I reckon given the price of an A6, you can probably man maths the La Remote anyway you can program things like bypass and what not on it, so even for HiFi usage you can probably get some useful utility from it more than just a snazzy volume and source switcher!

I can’t believe there’s so few devices out there catering to this market though - I’d have thought if miniDSP could come out with a DLBC SHD at around £2k ish they’d clean up?! I actually thought the A8 was a big swing a miss because it didn’t include any sort of proper sub out/bass management….perhaps an A10 might come out with it!

you make a good point about the digital volume ctrl of the eversolo possibly degrading the sound . worst case scenario then would be : change sources on the eversolo and volume on the Nova app ,.... and hope for a Nova ios app update that enables source switching .
i also strongly agree on you last paragraph , a SHD with DLBC or even ART would clean up the market silliness .

 

[MingChops]

you make a good point about the digital volume ctrl of the eversolo possibly degrading the sound . worst case scenario then would be : change sources on the eversolo and volume on the Nova app ,.... and hope for a Nova ios app update that enables source switching .
i also strongly agree on you last paragraph , a SHD with DLBC or even ART would clean up the market silliness .

Yeah could use it as a source plus do the switching only, probably best option until it’s in the app. You would assume the ability to change source should be coming though as if you look at the actual screen shots of the app it shows Source and Preset switching at the bottom! Although the device selected at the top is an Altitude, it suggests to me the functionality is inherently in the app though - probably worth emailing them as it might just be something they’ve overlooked given the Nova’s more pro user position.

 

[slaweks]

The capabilities of DLART and Waveforming are well known. DLART has been announced for the M66 in the near future.

...and DLBC announced to be available very soon on M33 over 2 years ago.

 

[pogo]

The development of the M66 currently has priority and after the official release it should also continue with the M33. What NAD has presented in recent years cannot be found with any other manufacturer. The complexity and quality of the new products probably leads to delays.
And now the T799 is also being developed in parallel. That all costs resources.

 

[MingChops]

The development of the M66 currently has priority and after the official release it should also continue with the M33. What NAD has presented in recent years cannot be found with any other manufacturer. The complexity and quality of the new products probably leads to delays.
And now the T799 is also being developed in parallel. That all costs resources.

Why are you such an apologist for NAD?

No ones disputing the effort these things take, and yes NAD are probably the most innovative HiFi player in the space at the moment, certainly of the traditional brands. BUT, they are an abject lesson in how not to manage customer expectations! Honesty and transparency goes a long way, and if they could manage and set expectations properly they would find themselves with much more favour and goodwill than the bashings they get around announcements and features etc.

I work in the enterprise IT space with the major tier 1 vendors, I have a decent understanding or what good and harm having the wrong approach to announcements and features makes - and of course I fully appreciate it's a fine line because of course they don't want to cannibalise current sales of products, but believe me NAD is (or certainly has been) doing it wrong. Every forum has users posting about the ridiculous gestation period for DLBC on M33, M10 and C658. It undermines and reduces confidence, to the point I'm pretty much ruling out an M66 now simply due to the poor legacy NAD is creating for itself or recent times. Jury's out for sure.

We don't need to apologies for NAD, we need to demand they do better. There's a genuinely exciting set of products they could have, so here's to hoping 2024 they turn it around and start to deliver on these currently very shallow promises now.

 

[pogo]

Where was NAD not honest and transparent?
The reasons for the delays were communicated.
But I do see one mistake at the moment, and that's the delivery of M66 units to the end customer, even though the official release has not yet taken place.

 

[markrubin]

Where was NAD not honest and transparent?
The reasons for the delays were communicated.
But I do see one mistake at the moment, and that's the delivery of M66 units to the end customer, even though the official release has not yet taken place.

I see one more mistake: lack of customer support. My return window ends soon: my dealer never told me I was getting a unit released before its time.
My dilemma is I really want to keep the unit, but NAD should step up and at least be responsive for those who ended up with them. But instead, after a week, this is all I get from NAD:
'Our apologies - due to the overwhelming excitement over BluOS 4.0, we are seeing a higher volume of calls but have been working even harder than expected here at The Bluesound Support Crew!'
So I don't know what to do: take it on faith these issues will be fixed?

 

[pogo]

I would keep it. My issues with the M33 were all fixed, albeit with a time delay because Corona was still in effect.

 

[MingChops]

I see one more mistake: lack of customer support. My return window ends soon: my dealer never told me I was getting a unit released before its time.
My dilemma is I really want to keep the unit, but NAD should step up and at least be responsive for those who ended up with them. But instead, after a week, this is all I get from NAD:
'Our apologies - due to the overwhelming excitement over BluOS 4.0, we are seeing a higher volume of calls but have been working even harder than expected here at The Bluesound Support Crew!'
So I don't know what to do: take it on faith these issues will be fixed?

Return it, it's not like its a limited edition one time opportunity to purchase. Buy it again when/if the issues are resolved. Seems pragmatic to me?

Due to the huge over commitment around telling us DLBC would be coming, I'm taking the ART is coming with a huge pinch of salt.
As said if they are honest and transparent with the timescales on ART, and they deliver on it, then that's a big vote of confidence.

Where was NAD not honest and transparent?
The reasons for the delays were communicated.
But I do see one mistake at the moment, and that's the delivery of M66 units to the end customer, even though the official release has not yet taken place.

I'm talking there in general terms that honesty and transparency are key for confidence and trust as you manage expectations, this isn't an alien concept to business - I'm not sure you understood the broader context of my post - I certainly won't be engaging in tit for tats on the individual words of a posting.

However, suffice to say what I would dearly love to see from NAD soon, is to take the bull by the horns and provide some real unambiguous details around the scheduling and release dates for when DLBC and ART can be expected on their products going forward.

For 2 years+ (?) we have vapourware essentially, this has not been well managed. I fail to see how you could even begin to argue it has, and I question your motives in doing so frankly.

 

[Sokel]

As much as I like M66 and even if it's at the top of my (very) short list,making end users beta testers is totally unacceptable and far,FAR from the mentality of it's target market,even if it's price is entry level HEA.
NAD should know better.

Edit:I blame dealers also,they should ABSOLUTELY know better.

 

[pogo]

Buy it again when/if the issues are resolved. Seems pragmatic to me?

If I had done it that way in the past, I would have had to pay extra when I bought a new one. The M33 has never been as cheap as it was in the beginning.