NAD M33 Streaming Amplifier Review

[Mnyb]

It’s all about the DAC design/engineering choices, RME offers +3.0dB headroom whereas Benchmark settled for +3.5dB. Note it’s all arbitrary chosen, no absolute targets exists since worst cases can reach +10dBFS.

yes attenuation somewhere in the digital domain , Denon and Yamaha has it somewhere in thier design , it's the total result that counts .

Yes you can convert to 32bit bit floating point math to get like 1500dB of dynamic range but somewhere in the chain you want to get back to an integer format to feed the DAC circuits and then you still have to make headroom , how the intersample peaks manifests is not something the processor can now beforehand so an arbitrary margin is added. as LarsS describe .

This would not be a problem with properly done masters this headroom is really the mastering engineers work to add .

Side note do typical AVR's use floating point CPU's these days ?

 

[Dieter Leonard]

Here is the solution:

One day I went to my doctor and told him: “Doctor, when I hold my arm in this position, I have pain in my shoulder.“
My doctor told me: „don’t hold your arm in this position furthermore...”

So, if the distortion is only audible when playing one word in one track of one CD of Lana del Rey, don‘t play this Track or this disc furthermore.
There is better music available then Lana Del Rey ...

 

[EB1000]

Here is the solution:

One day I went to my doctor and told him: “Doctor, when I hold my arm in this position, I have pain in my shoulder.“
My doctor told me: „don’t hold your arm in this position furthermore...”

So, if the distortion is only audible when playing one word in one track of one CD of Lana del Rey, don‘t play this Track or this disc furthermore.
There is better music available then Lana Del Rey ...

The distortion affects any track recorded with a peak above - 3dB. If that peak happens to be piano or vocals, you'll clearly hear it...

 

[Dieter Leonard]

The distortion affects any track recorded with a peak above - 3dB. If that peak happens to be piano or vocals, you'll clearly hear it...

Ok, but I have no subwoofer... what a pitty...

 

[Kaboo]

Ok, but I have no subwoofer... what a pitty...

Yes many bought this for the available feature to use.This sure is a pitty.A hobbled master series disaster lol.keep telling yourself you got what you paid for ..

 

[pogo]

Ok, but I have no subwoofer... what a pitty...

But you use DL (see also my Post #523)

 

[Kaboo]

Ok, but I have no subwoofer... what a pitty...

I have 5000 dollers worth of subwoofers.The amount of music with clipping distortion is large.dont kid yourself.And it is growing.Now you have a factor that can limit your purchase of a subwoofer..

 

[Kaboo]

Ok, but I have no subwoofer... what a pitty...

I believe the used market will soon be flooded with all the problematic nad gear

 

[unexperienced]

The M12 is an earlier product and very much like the M32 without power amp.

Remember that 90% of sub owners adjust the balance between their main speakers and the subs by using the sub's own built-in controls. DSP shouldn't be used for these basic adjustments - only for flattening out the response of the lower frequencies that the room acoustics may mess up.

I have the M12 (and had the M32 before the M33) and those units have a distinct advantage over the M33 regarding the Sub Settings. With the M12 and M32 you can independently set the cut off frequencies for the sub and the main speakers, so for example you could choose sub below 120 Hz and main about 100 Hz. This overlap is not possible with the M33. Also the 12 and 32 allow you to leave the full frequency range to go to the main speakers and say below 120 to the subs - again not possible with M33. Moreover the 12 and 32, but not the 33 allow the Main and Sub volumes to be trimmed to balance their relative volumes.

There are several other minor control annoyances with the M33 that are so easy with the 12 and 32. For example, how can you adjust?:

Left Right Balance - M33 only via LED screen (but not with a Dirac filter), 12 and 32 via apps, or screen, or IR remote.

Bass and Treble tone controls - M33 only via LED or apps, 12 and 32 by LED, apps or IR remote.

Full Settings menu - M33 via LED or apps for most (not all) settings, 12 and 32 via apps, or LED, or IR remote.

I'm hoping that NAD will develop firmware that will add hugely to the usefulness of the splendid IR remote that is the same as used by M12 and M32. With these older units the remote is much more useful!

Peter

Hello everyone! It's my first post here.

Wow! I was going to buy an M33. And now I have to think. Now I have both the NAD C390DD (since 2013) and the NAD M32 (since 2018). Both amplifiers have Bluos MDC installed. Recently made an upgrade for the C390. I installed a DSP on the ADAU1467 chip in it. It turned out very cool! Now I can make any sound settings in SigmaStudio. The last setting concerns the midrange area. I filtered them out a little. I corrected the frequency response for my room and my preferences. Now I plan to make the same upgrade in the M32. What you write about the settings in the M32 is very important to me. Since I use the M32 in bi-amping. If there are no such settings in the M33, then most likely I will not buy it then.

 

[AdamG]

Welcome Aboard @unexperienced.

 

[Dieter Leonard]

But you use DL (see also my Post #523)

Ok, please give me some examples of tracks where the distortion happens. Thx
What is the level when you hear the distortion? In never hear louder then -25 db

 

[Kaboo]

Ok, please give me some examples of tracks where the distortion happens. Thx
What is the level when you hear the distortion? In never hear louder then -25 db

The distortion will be heard at all levels of volume .It is a product of the track you are listening too and how it is recorded not how loud you are listening.

 

[Dj7675]

For users that use something like Roon, where you can adjust the amount of headroom, does the issue go away?

 

[Kaboo]

Here is the solution:

One day I went to my doctor and told him: “Doctor, when I hold my arm in this position, I have pain in my shoulder.“
My doctor told me: „don’t hold your arm in this position furthermore...”

So, if the distortion is only audible when playing one word in one track of one CD of Lana del Rey, don‘t play this Track or this disc furthermore.
There is better music available then Lana Del Rey ...

Do you think that the weird choice made by nad to have the fake analogue meters represent input levels rather than output power is because of the clipping issue.I have used it to set up my rme adi 2' fs dac output that I play music on a computer hdd through Audirvana. OMG

 

[pogo]

Ok, please give me some examples of tracks where the distortion happens. Thx
What is the level when you hear the distortion? In never hear louder then -25 db

See my post #554.

 

[EB1000]

For users that use something like Roon, where you can adjust the amount of headroom, does the issue go away?

Yes. Adding either a 3dB headroom filter or aplyying volume normalisation in Roon will eliminate the distortion by scarifying dynamic range. But it won't help for other music sources like Deezer or Internet radio...

 

[Dieter Leonard]

See my post #554.

Where do the distortion happens in which track at what time? Other examples available in Tidal?
You mention, the distortion is audible at -21 or -18db.
Kaboo mentioned “The distortion will be heard at all levels of volume”.
What is right?
I own the M33 since 3 month and I never heard any distortion while using dirac. Ok but I don’t hear at -21 db...

 

[EB1000]

Master volume level has no impact on the distortion bug. Clipping distribution happens whenever subwoofer is enabled, and the digital source level is higher than -3dB. The distortion can be heard only if the played audio during the clipping is either female vocals or piano.

 

[Dieter Leonard]

Master volume level has no impact on the distortion bug. Clipping distribution happens whenever subwoofer is enabled, and the digital source level is higher than -3dB. The distortion can be heard only if the played audio during the clipping is either female vocals or piano.

Only with female voice or piano...?

Is there a reason for?

NAD has to mention in their marketing:

M33: The best amplifier! But if you love female voice or piano buy another brand!

 

[Dieter Leonard]

Master volume level has no impact on the distortion bug. Clipping distribution happens whenever subwoofer is enabled, and the digital source level is higher than -3dB. The distortion can be heard only if the played audio during the clipping is either female vocals or piano.

Only when subwoofer is enabled?

If I have no subwoofer, can I go back and listen to music instead listening to distortion?
Pogo says No! Because even with subwoofer disabled but Dirac enablecdthere are distortion...

You guys make me crazy... ;-)