NAD M23

[MacCali]

You've been here since 2020, so I'll spare you my canned message to new members, but I don't believe a word of this. I mean, I believe you think it, I just don't think any of it is due to the equipment, or burn-in, or any other fevered creation of high-end vendor and reviewer imaginations.

The M23 is good it didn’t change, nor did probably 98% of my equipment. I got no clue if the pre90 was burn in or what it could be, I’m no audio expert.

But I’m telling you for certain the second I hooked it up I was ready to ship it back. It sounded really bad. Everything was super forward and highs got really piercing to my ears.

4 days later I was like damn this is the best sound I’ve ever had.

Probably a reasonable explanation for someone who understands these things.

Most people on here say that a dac has no effect, highly possible. It maybe just implementation. But I can hear differences on dacs as well, whatever maybe the cause. I’ve owned 10 or more already, from mainstreams to fpga. Seems like something is occurring to create a certain difference in tone

Also same with amps I’ve owned, even from the very same manufacturer. So far the only differences I am aware and clearly there are more is some units got J-fets other got mosfet. Same designer same line of amps and they all have some sound.

Like I said I’m not trying to get crucified here, just what I experienced. Can’t say for certain without a blind test but there’s definitely something different.

I love to learn man and I don’t take criticism negatively I definitely will not neglect to entertain any opinion or say it’s right or wrong right off the bat. I’m here to learn and overall I trust objectivity and Amir. Because of him I am very pleased where I am at, plus Gene and Erin or anyone not just trying to feed me bs

But there’s definitely ways to approach, you never see Amir clowning someone or belittling them. Even though he has years of experience and understanding. If you see my comments when trolls or people who perceive differences that don’t exist I don’t laugh at them or make snide comments. I respond in a respectful manner. To one not scare them off and have them feel like they want no part of the objective camp. I am objective and I want more people to follow and learn and most of all not got ripped off. Even if they are trolling that doesn’t bother me

 

[SIY]

Can’t say for certain without a blind test

That part is absolutely correct.

 

[MacCali]

That part is absolutely correct.

Unfortunately don’t have the time or even the second person to do this. Maybe someday

I mean what’s your take on the matter?

 

[SIY]

I mean what’s your take on the matter?

That it’s unlikely. I’ve had similar experiences and observations which seemed to vanish once I tested ears-only.

 

[tensor9]

NAD M23 Master Series Stereo Amplifier Test Report

The NAD M23 is a 200wpc stereo amp that utilizes the SOTA Class D Purifi 1ET400A reference design to push the envelope of performance and efficiency. Is this the best measuring amp in our 23+ year history?

www.audioholics.com

NAD M33 Streaming Amplifier Review

This is a review and detailed measurements of the NAD M33 Streaming Player with Purifi Eigentakt Amplification. It is kindly sent for testing from a member and has a retail cost of US $4,999. The NAD is part of their "Masters" series and has one of the best industrial designs of any audio...

www.audiosciencereview.com

The M23 measures considerably better than the M33 (per Amir’s review).

I got the M23 and absolutely love it.

Matrix Element X
NAD M23
Focal Aria 948

Everything is nice and clear.

 

[Staki]

If you don't have the time for a DBT, will you at least take the time to watch any of the videos available on the interwebs that demonstrate how expectation bias modulates our hearing? For me the BBC video about McGurk effect was the final nail in the coffin of audiophile myths. I can watch it any number of times, knowing exactly what is going to happen and still be fooled by it if I keep my eyes open.

 

[pogo]

The M23 measures considerably better than the M33

You can't directly compare a power amp like the M23 with an M33, which is a complete signal chain including DSP functions, DACs, ...!
If you would measure your chain, you would have to reckon with a disillusionment in one or the other place

 

[MacCali]

NAD M23 Master Series Stereo Amplifier Test Report

The NAD M23 is a 200wpc stereo amp that utilizes the SOTA Class D Purifi 1ET400A reference design to push the envelope of performance and efficiency. Is this the best measuring amp in our 23+ year history?

www.audioholics.com

NAD M33 Streaming Amplifier Review

This is a review and detailed measurements of the NAD M33 Streaming Player with Purifi Eigentakt Amplification. It is kindly sent for testing from a member and has a retail cost of US $4,999. The NAD is part of their "Masters" series and has one of the best industrial designs of any audio...

www.audiosciencereview.com

The M23 measures considerably better than the M33 (per Amir’s review).

I got the M23 and absolutely love it.

Matrix Element X
NAD M23
Focal Aria 948

Everything is nice and clear.

Oh damn I didn’t even know Amir measured the M33. That’s what we were discussing earlier. Once you add all that crap into one box of that size it’s going to create problems.

I maybe mistaken, and have not taken a look at size comparison available online, but I think the M23 is wider and a larger unit. I maybe wrong here.

But as stated the reason I bought the M23 was because of the 33 and realistically not super crazy on perfect measurements. I know tube amps function differently but I love tube sound but only so much money I can spend lol

 

[MacCali]

If you don't have the time for a DBT, will you at least take the time to watch any of the videos available on the interwebs that demonstrate how expectation bias modulates our hearing? For me the BBC video about McGurk effect was the final nail in the coffin of audiophile myths. I can watch it any number of times, knowing exactly what is going to happen and still be fooled by it if I keep my eyes open.

Someone has pointed this out to me before on another thread. Might have even been you.

I do fully accept objectivity and great measuring equipment. At the same time I’ve pointed out that owning an amp which had -38 or 40 db sinad with distortion in the teens at ~40% volume which is horrible and ranked in the top 5 worst amps ever made when it comes to listening it’s not as bad as one would imagine.

It no where near matches something at -120. But you would think that something that’s 66% worse would be god awful. I was actually shocked to find out the amp was so bad cause to some degree I actually enjoyed it.

*Just to note the dac and speakers used with this amp are trash too.

I think based on what Amir said does hold value. The dac is probably most crucial. Also going on previously thinking that Gene from audioholics saying 95 db sinad is good now makes further sense. I’m certain many will disagree

But I still aim for the stars and I only purchase the best objective products hence the M23

 

[MacCali]

That it’s unlikely. I’ve had similar experiences and observations which seemed to vanish once I tested ears-only.

So if we had let’s say 3 different dacs with similar measurements throughout, they would all sound the same or be indistinguishable in a blind test? What about amps? Pre?

Is the measurements the only perceived difference?

 

[pogo]

No and you should always consider what leads to the best audible result, see also here:

NAD has added a gain stage to increase its headroom so that it works better with the DSP circuits of its room-correction software and tone controls. NAD concedes that this slightly decreases the M33’s signal/noise ratio, but with careful design and premium parts, and because the Eigentakt’s S/N is so low to begin with, the noise is still inaudible.
Source: soundstagehifi.com

 

[SIY]

So if we had let’s say 3 different dacs with similar measurements throughout, they would all sound the same or be indistinguishable in a blind test? What about amps? Pre?

Is the measurements the only perceived difference?

Any perceived audible differences are trivially measured, yes. There has never been a single instance of a demonstrated audible difference that isn't easy to measure. Not one. Ever.

Electronics is a problem that has been technically solved for many decades. The challenge has been doing the spin for commercial viability, i.e., market differentiation.

 

[MaxBuck]

It occurred to me, while re-reading this thread, to ask myself whether I'd take the M23 in trade straight-up for my C298.

And I wouldn't. It wouldn't be worth the time and hassle of removing and replacing the speaker and input interconnects.

The M23 is certainly prettier, though.

ETA: I still say the M23 is magnificent. But the C298 isn't far short.

 

[pogo]

I think the M23 is wider and a larger unit. I maybe wrong here.

You are wrong. They have identical dimensions. Anything else would also make no sense, since the M23 can also be used in bridge mode as an extension of the M33.

 

[roog]

You are wrong. They have identical dimensions. Anything else would also make no sense, since the M23 can also be used in bridge mode as an extension of the M33.

/\ this, they are designed to be used as a matching pair.

 

[jae]

I've been thinking about a DIY Purifi/Nilai build for some time now, although upon recently finding out NAD is now Canadian and headquartered just a few miles away from a town where I grew up, I'm a little more open to suggesting one of their products to those back home if they were inclined to spend that much or perhaps buying one myself. I always had my father's old Sansui G-series in the home and for some reason I also thought NAD was Japanese only to find it it was originally British, which I should have also known also having grown up there. I thought that shiny silver of the time was way too gaudy and preferred the look of the black rackmounted Sansui AU-series professional gear, probably why I always liked NAD's minimalist understated look.

I'm rather surprised of all the comments regarding the audibility of this and that, surely by now anyone willing to spend thousands on amplification alone can spare $80 on a calibrated microphone to assist in applying room correction/eq or at the very least to see how their system is even performing and what could be improved (or even to "compare amps")? Perhaps a read of Toole's Sound Reproduction book is in order.

 

[HarmonicTHD]

I've been thinking about a DIY Purifi/Nilai build for some time now, although upon recently finding out NAD is now Canadian and headquartered just a few miles away from a town where I grew up, I'm a little more open to suggesting one of their products to those back home if they were inclined to spend that much or perhaps buying one myself. I always had my father's old Sansui G-series in the home and for some reason I also thought NAD was Japanese only to find it it was originally British, which I should have also known also having grown up there. I thought that shiny silver of the time was way too gaudy and preferred the look of the black rackmounted Sansui AU-series professional gear, probably why I always liked NAD's minimalist understated look.

I'm rather surprised of all the comments regarding the audibility of this and that, surely by now anyone willing to spend thousands on amplification alone can spare $80 on a calibrated microphone to assist in applying room correction/eq or at the very least to see how their system is even performing and what could be improved (or even to "compare amps")? Perhaps a read of Toole's Sound Reproduction book is in order.

Recommend Neurochrome.

DIY Audio Engineering Gear for Audiophiles | Neurochrome

Neurochrome is your go-to source for audio engineering gear and consulting. We make it easy for audiophiles to get the gear they need to get the sound they want.

neurochrome.com

Tom is Canadian and produces mainly in Canada and most likely can use it more than NAD.

 

[Papillon]

Is that nad m23 superior to amps like Apollon audio now working with the newest 1et7040sa?

 

[Jolopo]

Is that nad m23 superior to amps like Apollon audio now working with the newest 1et7040sa?

Are NAD purifi amps superior to Apollon purifi amps? Interested to hear from owners, I am considering a NAD M28 or Apollon Premium multichannel and also wondering if 1et704sa is worth the price difference vs 1et400A.

 

[Matias]

New measurements from SoundStage! SINAD 104 at our standard 5W 1 kHz into 4 ohms.

SoundStageNetwork.com | SoundStage.com - NAD Masters M23 Stereo/Mono Amplifier Measurements

www.soundstagenetwork.com