NAD M23

[MacCali]

I just wish the Watt race with Class D designs would end. 800W is a bit ridiculous. It just means you overdesign and charge for it.

We get it! Getting 800W with Class A would basically require you to build your own nuclear power plant and a data center class cooling system... But just stop it, IMO.

I'd rather get a very compact and equally performing design with -say- 100W.

I can agree to a certain extent, I am not an audio engineer or truly understand how capacitance works. But I believe it’s for those big jumps in power, 0 to 100 type situations.

Rather than put all those capacitors which they probably charge us 10x the price of each cap and put it into the product price this seems to be another way forward.

I may be wrong. Also from what I see and understood, even though damping factor isn’t major. I think the difference between 200 and 2000 or 20,000 isn’t major. Someone on here pointed this out on here with testing.

But to me the actual power capability is what provides maximum driver control. Which I guess in turn will be better sound reproduction in room.

Also maybe more useful when you have bigger drivers, I don’t know to be precise what other relation power has besides how loud the speaker will play

As you stated realistically people don’t even need more than 50 watts to get more than loud enough

My opinion, but I’m not an audio professor in any fashion and open to be corrected for better understanding and learning

 

[pablolie]

...
As you stated realistically people don’t even need more than 50 watts to get more than loud enough
...

I should nuance this by saying that, if the use case is to drive huge full-range tower speakers, hey, then you'll be happy about a lot of power - the majority of which goes into the bass. In my personal audio journey, the tower era ended. I find good bookshelf speakers combined with one or two subs far more practical - and they are far easier to place optimally. Note even a sub with a small-ish 8-inch woofer will -on average- 1000W (or so they claim). So if you cut off stuff to your bookshelves at the usual 80Hz, power requirements go down dramatically.

 

[Shoaibexpert]

I upgraded from C298 to M23 this week and I can say that you get what you pay for! M23 is definitely more cleaner, punchier with better instrument separation and wider and deeper soundstage. Looks like the PSU changes helped. No I did not do ABx as the C298 was sold beforehand.

I have an ASR approved clean chain (for the most part, I would like to think so): Roon ROCK-Ifi Zen Stream-VMV D1se (Tube 2)-Topping Pre90-NAD M23-KEF R7s-KEF KF92 Subwoofer (all mogami balanced)

 

[MaxBuck]

I upgraded from C298 to M23 this week and I can say that you get what you pay for! M23 is definitely more cleaner, punchier with better instrument separation and wider and deeper soundstage.

I'm so happy you think so.

 

[pogo]

M23 is definitely more cleaner, punchier with better instrument separation and wider and deeper soundstage. Looks like the PSU changes helped.

Confirmed: Link

 

[pogo]

 

[SIY]

Confirmed: Link

Usual no controls fairy tale.

 

[voodooless]

Disproven:

Sound quality:
M23 = 83%
C298 = 97%

See, I can make up numbers as well!

 

[MacCali]

I upgraded from C298 to M23 this week and I can say that you get what you pay for! M23 is definitely more cleaner, punchier with better instrument separation and wider and deeper soundstage. Looks like the PSU changes helped. No I did not do ABx as the C298 was sold beforehand.

I have an ASR approved clean chain (for the most part, I would like to think so): Roon ROCK-Ifi Zen Stream-VMV D1se (Tube 2)-Topping Pre90-NAD M23-KEF R7s-KEF KF92 Subwoofer (all mogami balanced)

Similarly I use the pre90 and all mogami too. I’m waiting for my Cayin “tube” dac to add some more flavor to this mix but the d70s is wonderful as is.

 

[MacCali]

I mentioned on here when I listened to the M33 I was fairly shocked. One would assume synergy but tested on 3 different speakers from 3 different brands and all sounded excellent to my ears and very much like A/B with the strengths of D.

I was a bit concerned with M23 not being similar but personally I think it’s better and probably is cleaner measurements wise.

I’ve been impressed with NAD since my very first integrated the 326BEE. Glad they made quality work of this product.

 

[Shoaibexpert]

Similarly I use the pre90 and all mogami too. I’m waiting for my Cayin “tube” dac to add some more flavor to this mix but the d70s is wonderful as is.

I add color by adding VMV D1se Tube 2 to the mix. It works very well. The hybrid digital output stage of the D1se makes for a very fluid presentation, too...

 

[pogo]

I was a bit concerned with M23 not being similar but personally I think it’s better

There should be no difference between the power amp sections, see also here: Link

If you want transparent playback, I would prefer the M33 instead of a solution with M23 and additional hardware.

 

[Shoaibexpert]

There should be no difference between the power amp sections, see also here: Link

If you want transparent playback, I would prefer the M33 instead of a solution with M23 and additional hardware.

I beg to disagree here. I could have got the M33 but went for separates coz M33 seemed to pack a lot of electronics in one box, all sharing the PSU section and also because in the process it basically did A to D conversion (for any separate/cleaner DAC), then processed the signal and then did D to A conversion, loosing any info above 20Khz in the process. High Res is just not a thing with M33 as I understand (please correct, as I am basing this on Amir's tests). Plus M23's PSU seems visibly different...

 

[pogo]

You are wrong and even Dirac Live works up to 192k, which very few can do, see also here: Link

The ADC section on the M33 can be set to 48, 96 or 192k!
Advantages are also the short signal paths and the matching of the individual function stages within the M33.

 

[MacCali]

I add color by adding VMV D1se Tube 2 to the mix. It works very well. The hybrid digital output stage of the D1se makes for a very fluid presentation, too...

Yea that’s what I do with my chain all the time, kind of tilt the sound and fix anything that exaggerated

 

[ahofer]

I don’t understand what “fluid presentation” or “tilting the sound” mean. I’m suspicious they don’t mean anything at all.

 

[MacCali]

You are wrong and even Dirac Live works up to 192k, which very few can do, see also here: Link

The ADC section on the M33 can be set to 48, 96 or 192k!
Advantages are also the short signal paths and the matching of the individual function stages within the M33.

I thought what Shoaib said, I mean who really knows unless it’s measured. To be sincere I thought that the unit having some degradation of its measurements would actually produce a more pleasant sound.

I’m not chasing -120 and to be honest, and I’ve mentioned this before, I don’t like the benchmark amp. It did concern me that this unit maybe similar based solely upon measurements and not having the measurements of the m33. But that’s not the case and this unit is a keeper.

Next I mean the unit itself is 2/3 the price of the m33. I don’t want anything else the unit comes with besides maybe dirac but probably ways to integrate that with other tools and if not I don’t really care.

I don’t need small form factor or any AIO. My place is flooded with audio and knee deep in this crap

 

[MacCali]

I don’t understand what “fluid presentation” or “tilting the sound” mean. I’m suspicious they don’t mean anything at all.

Most likely, but for example my previous amp which I loved and still plan on keeping. In addition I own two, and most of the product line(4 power amps)

With the dac alone and the unit itself in my opinion both being “warm” didn’t make the bass very pleasant. Wasn’t bad, but still.

The pre 90 is on the analytic side of the spectrum and simply by introducing it it made everything sound perfect.

Honestly besides the demo of the M33 I bought the M23 as second amp and experimental piece to further develop in this audio realm. I’ve only been into audio since September of 2020. I’ve bought a bunch of crap I don’t need just to learn and see what’s possible.

At least with the pre90, and definitely a touchy subject, I do believe some products need to be burned in.

The pre90 was so bad out of the box with the very same system sound shrill and fairly nasty. I try not to rush to judgement so I kept the unit playing music for a few days and it’s extremely awesome. All of that went away and everything sounded right where I want it to be or tilted lol

Edit: last paragraph is clearly pointing out to me units do have a sound signature.

 

[SIY]

Most likely, but for example my previous amp which I loved and still plan on keeping. In addition I own two, and most of the product line(4 power amps)

With the dac alone and the unit itself in my opinion both being “warm” didn’t make the bass very pleasant. Wasn’t bad, but still.

The pre 90 is on the analytic side of the spectrum and simply by introducing it it made everything sound perfect.

Honestly besides the demo of the M33 I bought the M23 as second amp and experimental piece to further develop in this audio realm. I’ve only been into audio since September of 2020. I’ve bought a bunch of crap I don’t need just to learn and see what’s possible.

At least with the pre90, and definitely a touchy subject, I do believe some products need to be burned in.

The pre90 was so bad out of the box with the very same system sound shrill and fairly nasty. I try not to rush to judgement so I kept the unit playing music for a few days and it’s extremely awesome. All of that went away and everything sounded right where I want it to be or tilted lol

Edit: last paragraph is clearly pointing out to me units do have a sound signature.

My goodness.

 

[ahofer]

Most likely, but for example my previous amp which I loved and still plan on keeping. In addition I own two, and most of the product line(4 power amps)

With the dac alone and the unit itself in my opinion both being “warm” didn’t make the bass very pleasant. Wasn’t bad, but still.

The pre 90 is on the analytic side of the spectrum and simply by introducing it it made everything sound perfect.

Honestly besides the demo of the M33 I bought the M23 as second amp and experimental piece to further develop in this audio realm. I’ve only been into audio since September of 2020. I’ve bought a bunch of crap I don’t need just to learn and see what’s possible.

At least with the pre90, and definitely a touchy subject, I do believe some products need to be burned in.

The pre90 was so bad out of the box with the very same system sound shrill and fairly nasty. I try not to rush to judgement so I kept the unit playing music for a few days and it’s extremely awesome. All of that went away and everything sounded right where I want it to be or tilted lol

Edit: last paragraph is clearly pointing out to me units do have a sound signature.

You've been here since 2020, so I'll spare you my canned message to new members, but I don't believe a word of this. I mean, I believe you think it, I just don't think any of it is due to the equipment, or burn-in, or any other fevered creation of high-end vendor and reviewer imaginations.