NAD M23 Stereo Amplifier Review

[MacCali]

Not my experience.

It happens man and I agree with you, also as mentioned I started with NAD. Just an observation and relationship wise has nothing to do with poor quality parts.

But I do see a lot of refurbished NAD products by a few authorized retailers. Honestly every retailer has this and most likely rather than resell they use them for warranty replacement I might guess. Not sure how it breaks down.

If anything I have only seen only one other brand that sells as new with warranty refurbished, sure there’s more.

But the only thing I can fault is not the company but who manufacturers the product. I don’t think there’s design flaws or cheap parts. You get what you pay for.

 

[martin900]

C298 and M33 use the same SMPS. Basically the M33 is the C298 + BluOS hardware-wise. The M23 is unique with a different SMPS and input stage.
Photo credit: https://www.fidelity-magazine.com/nad-m33-and-m23/
View attachment 293351

And here you can again see - even in the most expensive series they're using trash parts in critical places (PSU - close to heatsinks too). The greenish/blueish caps are same chinese Junzl, Lelon, Luxon or whatever C-brand electrolytics they've been using for years. Seriously, all that stuff is made to fail outside warranty period...that's the other warranty, you can be sure as hell they will die prematurely.

There is really no excuse for this, even a cheap Rotel built in China from mid 2000's (RA-1062) I opened lately is packed full of Pana's, Rubycons, custom BHC's in the PSU etc. and still works as on day one 20 years later because the parts used are good quality and it's not been designed by a monkey and so Rotel thought about enough clearance between the caps and heat sources like resistors and power regulators.
Hell, even a generic Topping / SMSL design mops the floor with NAD both design and part quality wise.

 

[MaxBuck]

I really don't care what capacitors are used so long as they perform well.

 

[NADKEF listener]

I think the topic here was the NAD M23. I own one and I am very satisfied with the quality i hear. Bashing a specific brand is better done in another topic.

 

[MacCali]

And here you can again see - even in the most expensive series they're using trash parts in critical places (PSU - close to heatsinks too). The greenish/blueish caps are same chinese Junzl, Lelon, Luxon or whatever C-brand electrolytics they've been using for years. Seriously, all that stuff is made to fail outside warranty period...that's the other warranty, you can be sure as hell they will die prematurely.

There is really no excuse for this, even a cheap Rotel built in China from mid 2000's (RA-1062) I opened lately is packed full of Pana's, Rubycons, custom BHC's in the PSU etc. and still works as on day one 20 years later because the parts used are good quality and it's not been designed by a monkey and so Rotel thought about enough clearance between the caps and heat sources like resistors and power regulators.
Hell, even a generic Topping / SMSL design mops the floor with NAD both design and part quality wise.

I will not debate your point as it seems valid, nothing to refute. But at the same time you must consider a lot of Chinese companies have definitely stepped up their game. Especially since chifi has been taking off world wide.

Second to that to my understanding there’s more to this amp than just that. So with that mind some things are there and something’s may come off as problematic or failure points.

But as I said earlier, the only other class D amp with my taste sonically is Bel Canto Black. That unit starts off at 7500 or more, the final unit which isn’t an all plastic or epoxy chassis is 15,000. According to my research internally it’s basically the same.

But let’s say for perspective it is, this unit is 3500 cheaper. I would rather pay less and upgrade all those caps to the most elite brands vs have the company do it cause it’s going to take the price through the roof.

Furthermore as a person who is not fond of class D amps, which many forum members tell me I’m probably not liking something else vs the amp being the issue. I really enjoy this amp, it still has the one of the pitfalls which is why I don’t prefer class D but the rest is gone and even the pitfall is much more mitigated vs other amps I’ve heard at a lower or similar price.

We have yet to see if it will fail and I am no way going to defend that or debate it. Until it does I will stick to my point

Also if it does fail I’ll be first to return to report, as I will probably have this amp for 5+ years.

 

[fcracer]

And here you can again see - even in the most expensive series they're using trash parts in critical places (PSU - close to heatsinks too). The greenish/blueish caps are same chinese Junzl, Lelon, Luxon or whatever C-brand electrolytics they've been using for years. Seriously, all that stuff is made to fail outside warranty period...that's the other warranty, you can be sure as hell they will die prematurely.

There is really no excuse for this, even a cheap Rotel built in China from mid 2000's (RA-1062) I opened lately is packed full of Pana's, Rubycons, custom BHC's in the PSU etc. and still works as on day one 20 years later because the parts used are good quality and it's not been designed by a monkey and so Rotel thought about enough clearance between the caps and heat sources like resistors and power regulators.
Hell, even a generic Topping / SMSL design mops the floor with NAD both design and part quality wise.

I don't know anything about brands of internal parts in amplifiers, but here's my experience with NAD:

NAD T750 - purchased in the 1990's (I think it was 1997?) and still operational in a restaurant in Toronto, Canada. I beat the living crap out of this amp during my house parties in Canada playing EDM to the extent that I blew the tweeter in a Monitor Audio speaker from clipping the amplifier.

NAD C272 - purchased two of these in 2010 second hand and both continue to work today. This amplifier has immense power and even under heavy stress, has never showed any signs of clipping. I did do the recall where NAD replaced some caps that blow up.

NAD C262 - purchased with the C272 and continues to work well today.

NAD C390DD - purchased in 2013 and worked perfectly until 2022, upon which time the unit won't power up. NAD here in China said they know what the issue is and need to replace some power supply related relay or capacitor. I haven't had the time to send it in yet, but happy they know the issue and can fix it.

NAD M33 - purchased in 2020 (thank goodness I had this amplifier during the lockdowns we had in China; it provided so much joy during a challenging time) and continue to work perfectly three years later.

NAD C3050LE - purchased in 2023 and so far working fine. There are some firmware bugs that they haven't sorted out yet, but nothing serious and nothing that impacts the sound quality.

Wow, I've had a lot of NAD products (I also have a Creek Audio EVO100A which is an excellent amplifier in terms of build quality and a recently purchased Cambridge Audio EV150).

In summary, six devices from NAD, with one having had issues. I do however agree with the poster that NAD can do better with their Master Series. I'd like to see better build quality and better materials used (i.e, a metal volume knob would be nice. My Creek EVO100A has one at half the price, why can't NAD do the same?).

 

[Snix]

Great unit, even better review as always.

Now it would be super nice if we can have C298 review as well.

As my L90Ds keep failing, gotta find the new toy real quick

 

[roog]

Great unit, even better review as always.

Now it would be super nice if we can have C298 review as well.

As my L90Ds keep failing, gotta find the new toy real quick

"Now it would be super nice if we can have C298 review as well."

I agree, please pretty please? :0) i.e. do you get any more for your money other than a nicer case? I suspect not really but I would love to see the results side by side.

 

[ENG]

Great unit, even better review as always.

Now it would be super nice if we can have C298 review as well.

As my L90Ds keep failing, gotta find the new toy real quick

NAD C298, Stereophiles measurement:

NAD C 298 power amplifier Measurements

Sidebar 4: Measurements

www.stereophile.com

I have two pieces of these, and they function great.

 

[Livewire]

I've become a little disillusioned with NAD/Lenbrook. My Bluesound node recently died because a couple caps in the PS were touching the heatsink. It cost me $5 to fix. They quoted $350. The unit has a soft rubber coating that has turned into a sticky mess. Lenbrook assumes zero responsibility for their own mistakes.

 

[pogo]

Pictures?

 

[roog]

I've become a little disillusioned with NAD/Lenbrook. My Bluesound node recently died because a couple caps in the PS were touching the heatsink. It cost me $5 to fix. They quoted $350. The unit has a soft rubber coating that has turned into a sticky mess. Lenbrook assumes zero responsibility for their own mistakes.

I am included to agree with you on the Node 2i, whilst mine does still work, their choice of finish on the case appears to be short lived, I would say that mine is currently at the 'tacky' stage.
Perhaps it will scrape off with help from some suitably nasty chemical then once clean I can let my kids decorate it with enamel or acrylic paints! A project for the future, or maybe I could just install it in another case, from a vintage B&O cassette player perhaps?

 

[Livewire]

Pictures?

You can see here how they are touching the heatsink and bulging ^

 

[MacCali]

View attachment 297215
You can see here how they are touching the heatsink and bulging ^

This the exact thing I pointed out earlier, the products are designed like crap. But when they are assembled the cheap labor fails to do a quality job. It’s basically only their job to make it passed QC/demo and they’re happy campers.

 

[fcracer]

View attachment 297215
You can see here how they are touching the heatsink and bulging ^

Disappointing to see design/workmanship like this. I wish some other vendor such as Creek would offer a hypex or purifi integrated with airplay and dirac, while being built to last. It would be an instant buy.

 

[pogo]

I can't really see a problem with the current NAD units. The necessary distances should be given and also partly have a technical reason.
Why the heatsink of the Node is bent at the capacitors, this can have several reasons and should not really be so.

 

[MacCali]

Not sure if the edit button disappeared or what’s going on precisely, but on my post #238 it’s aren’t designed like crap.

You get what you pay for man, that’s basically it. 4000 is a lot to most of us and some people dish that out on a pair of interconnects like it’s 500 spent on our budget.

There’s a entire category of crap that could possibly go on. However, I feel it’s best to say when you go to cheap labor in manufacturing which mass production always seeks out things like this are very likely to happen. For how much these people are paid to basically assemble these things I can’t be mad honestly.

You got to consider realistically and we have an entire thread on this on these forums. This amp costs a 1000-1200 to produce. Manufacturer needs profit, retailer needs profit, and these are where these skips occur. Just imagine on a 500 dollar node lol

 

[Snoopy]

.

You got to consider realistically and we have an entire thread on this on these forums. This amp costs a 1000-1200 to produce. Manufacturer needs profit, retailer needs profit, and these are where these skips occur. Just imagine on a 500 dollar node lol

Probably a lot of nodes are sold . No surprise that there are reports of failing units.
Its the same with Topping and SMSL.

The question is do you spend 4000 bucks on something made in Japan, the US or Germany that probably will not fail for years and will still be serviced because the manufacturer is still around or do you spend 500 dollar on something from a Chinese brands (and this is not a insult, racist or low quality talk) that might maybe fail after a few years and buy a new unit.

But more and more manufacturers are stuffing more things into smaller boxes with big LCD and oled screens .. I'm not surprised these units die more often.

Look at a NAD M10 or a Cambridge Evo.

 

[MacCali]

Probably a lot of nodes are sold . No surprise that there are reports of failing units.
Its the same with Topping and SMSL.

The question is do you spend 4000 bucks on something made in Japan, the US or Germany that probably will not fail for years and will still be serviced because the manufacturer is still around or do you spend 500 dollar on something from a Chinese brands (and this is not a insult, racist or low quality talk) that might maybe fail after a few years and buy a new unit.

But more and more manufacturers are stuffing more things into smaller boxes with big LCD and oled screens .. I'm not surprised these units die more often.

Look at a NAD M10 or a Cambridge Evo.

I think the problem we face is where it is designed and who builds it. I don’t find any racist issue in your reply. However we know there are definitely quality products which come from every country.

Hell most of everything we own comes out of china. But it depends how you focus your manufacturing. We would assume, fingers crossed, that two different pay grade people are assembling certain things. I would hope someone who does the node won’t touch the master series.

At the same time we could be jumping the gun altogether. It may have been done primarily by machine. Run by a knuckle head.

I mean the only other thing that gets you what you say is in the super high end tier and even though we are not against it. We want to see objective value as well. So for the most part here people outweigh performance to everything else. I find that fair and I am on the same boat. I can definitely dish out a lot of money on crazy things but personally I think that’s nuts and already feel I am way to deep in this.

And as I stated previously no matter how much I enjoyed the Bel Canto black I would never buy that even if it was flawless in measurements.

Regardless with so much audio brands and equipment out there you would drive yourself mad having to think about this. At least with a big brand like NAD you have some piece of mind. Not saying other companies fall through, just that you got nothing to worry about in the mean time. To where a new or up and coming company might make you think and stop you from purchasing.

 

[anarchist]

NAD C298, Stereophiles measurement:

NAD C 298 power amplifier Measurements

Sidebar 4: Measurements

www.stereophile.com

I have two pieces of these, and they function great.

This is especially interesting feature of NAD C 298, square wave sent into the amplifier comes out not exactly square, despite nearly perfect SINAD. I wonder is this a problem with most class D amps?