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NAD M10 Streaming Amplifier Review

I didn’t take a photo, usually you don’t have time to see the message, you hear the sound disappear and see that the device is rebooting. Here's what the manual says:
Temperature Left/Temperature Right: If the internal temperature
of either left or right amplifier channel reaches 91 degrees
centigrade, M10 will turn off automatically and a protect message
will be shown in the display. Once the temperature falls below
80 degrees centigrade, M10 will turn on again and the protect
message display will be cleared.
You can go into the menu and see it's idle temp
 
My M10 has finally fallen into disrepair. In speaker output mode it reboots after a few seconds; in preamplifier mode it does not reboot, but the sound is output with distortion.
 
My M10 has finally fallen into disrepair. In speaker output mode it reboots after a few seconds; in preamplifier mode it does not reboot, but the sound is output with distortion.
I'm curious: Did you buy it new? And how long has it been in use?
 
My M10 has finally fallen into disrepair. In speaker output mode it reboots after a few seconds; in preamplifier mode it does not reboot, but the sound is output with distortion.
I'm sorry to hear that, but that points to the amplifier being broken which is reparirable though expensive. I recently purchased the Wiim Amp (not the Pro version) and I'm quite happy with it. I doesn't have the beautiful display, nor the Dirac Room correction but at 1/6 the price it is not a bad trade-off
 
I'm sorry to hear that, but that points to the amplifier being broken which is reparirable though expensive. I recently purchased the Wiim Amp (not the Pro version) and I'm quite happy with it. I doesn't have the beautiful display, nor the Dirac Room correction but at 1/6 the price it is not a bad trade-off
I had a WiiM Amp, but I was not satisfied with the low power, and at close to the maximum volume level, obvious distortion was heard
 
Good afternoon!
There are 2 problems with my NAD M10 v.1:
1. Overheating. When working, and not at high volume levels, the device reboots, as far as I understand, due to overheating.
2. Spontaneous switching on. The device turns on periodically from standby mode.

Have you encountered any of these problems and is there any solution?
I have not faced these issues with the M1. Is the firmware up to date?
 
I still don't quite understand your experience with NAD inbuilt amp. I have medium efficiency speakers and sub and I can drive it louder than my ears can handle with metal and pop. With classical and soundtrack there isn't much reserve left after Dirac but it is just enough for live levels.
Also, Fosis can't have (and I really mean can't, not an opinion) more detail than nCore. Having to adjust eq after changing an amp is not something that should be a thing.
I mean I'm happy it works for you but something is a bit odd here.
Circling back to your observation after some time. The V1 had some gain issues in matching the amps and sub such that the sub would not wake with the main speakers. If using just full range speakers and no sub then not an issue. But in 2+1 it was unusable and also reported by Bluesound users as well so not an isolated issue. Using external amps meant the gain could better match the sub output and everything wakes up together. A bonus is that the Fosi V3 and the op amp update sounds even better than the onboard ncore amps. In the end I went with the balanced inputs for the best gain match to the sub output and it’s been working just fine since then. It’s what NAD should have done from the get go, ensured it all worked properly. Obviously it was configured to drive the amps. Sub output was about half that of my Yamaha amp for example. So plenty of speaker volume, sub would not wake unless the amp volume was stupid loud and then it couldn’t keep up with the speakers.

Initially NAD support denied there was any sort of problem and blamed my sub which is a PSB so I asked them to check what their speaker devs had to say about that since they are the same company. PSB, Bluesound and NAD share the same service desk. Anyway I fixed it in this way. This defect is likely why the V2 got new gain algorithms. Today of course the Node Icon exists which would be a good drop in replacement for the M10 should the need arise. But until then it sounds great.

I have a 2+1 Yamaha streaming system in my office and it has always worked as expected. I had a Yamaha streamer/amp connected to the PSB speakers prior to the M10 and it always worked as expected. To upgrade to the M10 and face such basic issues and terrible support was a great disappointment.
 
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Using the the 12v trigger cable wil always wake up the sub. My PC wakes up the M10 V3 and then the M10 wakes up my sub. It works flawless everytime.
 
Using the the 12v trigger cable wil always wake up the sub. My PC wakes up the M10 V3 and then the M10 wakes up my sub. It works flawless everytime.
This is the exact advice I got from the NAD service desk. If only the PSB sub series 200 had a 12v input - which they should know since they are also the PSB service desk.
 
This is the exact advice I got from the NAD service desk. If only the PSB sub series 200 had a 12v input - which they should know since they are also the PSB service desk.
Why not connect the trigger from the nad to a controlled AC outlet, Because your sub does not have a trigger.

Here are some examples but there are many more:

 
The need has now passed. The sub is always on but it needs a suitable audio signal to power up and make noise. That’s one issue. The other is the huge variation in the output signal to the sub lacking sufficient gain for the sub to work properly. Not just me but anyone with the V1 or Bluesound products. If you google Bluesound weak sub you’ll see what an issue it was back in the day.

It’s a non issue now with the addition of external amps and matching the gain there to the sub output on the M10.

It’s just a shame it was released into the wild like that and the NAD/Bluesound/PSB support were so useless declaring there was no issue when there was a properly documented widespread defect with their product.

Anyway I fixed it.
 
The need has now passed. The sub is always on but it needs a suitable audio signal to power up and make noise. That’s one issue. The other is the huge variation in the output signal to the sub lacking sufficient gain for the sub to work properly. Not just me but anyone with the V1 or Bluesound products. If you google Bluesound weak sub you’ll see what an issue it was back in the day.

It’s a non issue now with the addition of external amps and matching the gain there to the sub output on the M10.

It’s just a shame it was released into the wild like that and the NAD/Bluesound/PSB support were so useless declaring there was no issue when there was a properly documented widespread defect with their product.

Anyway I fixed it.

maybe too late, but did you try bumping the sub gain in dirac?
 
And so a further update. I've updated Dirac to 3.21.2 the latest. I've plugged the mic into the M10 directly, previously I had it into the laptop I was recording the calibration data. This time its been driven from a Mac rather than a PC and I've generated two new profiles. One is using the Dirac standard curve. One is the NAD standard curve. Results are much better than previously. And there part of the magic of the M10, the way Dirac elevates the listening experience - in my case anyway - should not be underestimated. NAD curve shown.

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I still don't quite understand your experience with NAD inbuilt amp. I have medium efficiency speakers and sub and I can drive it louder than my ears can handle with metal and pop. With classical and soundtrack there isn't much reserve left after Dirac but it is just enough for live levels.
Also, Fosis can't have (and I really mean can't, not an opinion) more detail than nCore. Having to adjust eq after changing an amp is not something that should be a thing.
I mean I'm happy it works for you but something is a bit odd here.
Although this is now old, I will have another go at explaining "Fosis can't have more detail than nCore".

It would argue this conversation is not about the amplifier alone providing more detail but the combination of the amplifier implementation and subsequent tuning in the system in the listening room. And for sure it sounds way better. Not an opinion. ;)

Circling back to the original issue with the V1, the M10 would not trigger the sub. Not just me but many people face the same issue with subs of all type and BlueOS powered products at that time. The sub output voltage was half that of the previous 2 amps used so when it woke up there was insufficient volume to match the sub to the main speakers. All the issues and correspondence with NAD I documented elsewhere in the post, including their denial of any sort of problem in the face of overwhelming evidence to the contrary. For sure they knew all about it. This was subsequently rectified in the V2 when NAD changed the "gain algorithms" so it was no longer an issue.The SINAD dropped in the V2 as well.

What I have done is replace the onboard nCore amps with 2 FOSI V3 mono and 5W power supplies. Lets say that's close enough to the on board nCore amps in power output, but these measure better than the M10 (not an opinion). In addition the Fosi V3 mono has multiple options for input gain which was a selection criteria. In the end I chose the XLR input @ 20db (SINAD : XLR: 101dB) as the best match to the sub output on the M10. Obviously the M10 outputs are not balanced, in this application it doesn't matter. You can see it sits alongside the NAD C298 which is an Eigentakt powered stereo amp with the M10 way back at 86 and the v2 in the 70's.

So its not just about the technology, nCore is just fine, but rather the implementation in the M10V1 was terrible. The Fosi amps are not driven flat out, but I still get plenty of volume. A common observation is class D amps can sound right on the edge at about 85+ db, certainly this was true of the M10 in my listening room and its nCore amps. Now with the Fosi amps installed and the way they are connected, it seems there is much more headroom. I am not offering any science, but I am not the only one who listens and others are not privy to the changes made but they do comment. So maybe we are all imagining it. ;)

In any case I am quite satisfied with the result and it was way cheaper than outboard NAD amplification or some other outboard option. C298 was under consideration but obviously its at a different price point. You can see below input gain can be adjusted with the C298. Fosi amps were an inexpensive experiment that worked out just fine and these are fitted with Muses op amps also.

Bear in mind this is in my view a small room system, its connected to a pair of small speakers and a small sub. It now does exactly whats needed for reasonable money in the small room where it resides. If I had a larger room and the budget I'd start with a pair of JBL or Altec speakers and the M23/66 pair. But that's a whole different level of cost and performance and a completely different listening experience.
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