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NAD M10 Streaming Amplifier Review

PeteL said:
You know what, I have Ncore 500 amps that I built, and I see comments like this pop up often. The Ncore based modules are amazing don't get me wrong, but they are not cheap! When I count everything, even without my time messing around, I was thinking for fun that there would be no way in small volume a small manufacturer could reach a 2000K mark, even with a quite simple and minimal design around the module. Basically, what I'm saying, the price we see from NAD, ATI, etc. Those amps are totally worth that. Even to the point that I'm not sure the hassle of DIY is worth it, you do it to learn or to do something special with it, not to save money. Now we see here one that falls a bit short in term of performance, it's unfortunate, and yes you want something that perform if you muster those 3k$, but I'll always vouch for manufacturer, like NAD that don't sell overly boutique luxury products, but still don't go and compete with Topping or SMSL because it's a lost fight in advance. We just can't expect that from a Canadian based manufacturer, Nad have been around for ever. They wouldn't be still there if they where trying to sell this kind of thing for 1k to please the "best sinad for the dollar" crowd.
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As much as I like The Lenbrook Group (NAD) and have had excellent dealings with the company in the past... It is manufactured in Asia. NAD should be able to compete. I know the margins on NAD are higher than stuff like Sony, Denon and even Yamaha.
 
Doodski said:
As much as I like The Lenbrook Group (NAD) and have had excellent dealings with the company in the past... It is manufactured in Asia. NAD should be able to compete. I know the margins on NAD are higher than stuff like Sony, Denon and even Yamaha.
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Maybe yes, but they have nowhere near the volume of those 3 brands, not even in the same league (and technically, Japan is still Asia)! There are cost for a western company to set up a production line in asia, yes at a certain vo;ume, and I'm sure they evaluated that it was worth it, those cost are recouped, but still, we are not talking apple here with production batches of millions! Just think about it (My edit was after your reply) A dirac Licence for PC is at the moment 450$. It's difficult to find a decent Network streamer under 600$, There's a Ncore Module, DSP ressources, A massive screen, App development, etc etc. What price would people expect to pay?
 
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PeteL said:
You know what, I have Ncore 500 amps that I built, and I see comments like this pop up often. The Ncore based modules are amazing don't get me wrong, but they are not cheap! When I count everything, even without my time messing around, I was thinking for fun that there would be no way in small volume a small manufacturer could reach a 2000K mark, even with a quite simple and minimal design around the module. Basically, what I'm saying, the price we see from NAD, ATI, etc. Those amps are totally worth that. Even to the point that I'm not sure the hassle of DIY is worth it, you do it to learn or to do something special with it, not to save money. Now we see here one that falls a bit short in term of performance, it's unfortunate, and yes you want something that perform if you muster those 3k$, but I'll always vouch for manufacturer, like NAD that don't sell overly boutique luxury products, but still don't go and compete with Topping or SMSL because it's a lost fight in advance. We just can't expect that from a Canadian based manufacturer, Nad have been around for ever. They wouldn't be still there if they where trying to sell this kind of thing for 1k to please the "best sinad for the dollar" crowd. Think about that. A Dirac License for PC is 450$. Look at what you get here.
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I just meant that there are many great value Ncore based amps like IOM, VTV, Audiophonics, etc. Your overall point is a good one.
 
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PeteL said:
Maybe yes, but they have nowhere near the volume of those 3 brands, not even in the same league (and technically, Japan is still Asia)! There are cost for a western company to set up a production line in asia, yes at a certain vo;ume, and I'm sure they evaluated that it was worth it, those cost are recouped, but still, we are not talking apple here with production batches of millions! Just think about it (My edit was after your reply) A dirac Licence for PC is at the moment 450$. It's difficult to find a decent Network streamer under 600$, There's a Ncore Module, DSP ressources, A massive screen, App development, etc etc. What price would people expect to pay?
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At the price premium NAD is charging, I expect at least basic inputs to function properly. The M10 and several other NAD devices have had faulty digital inputs that, it sound like, have only recently been fixed via firmware.
 
ROOSKIE said:
Sure that counts. Basically a similar price depending on exchange rates.
Specs sure sound good. Let's see it tested of course.
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Maybe better measured performance, yes one box. But a Bluetooth antenna don't make it a network streamer, totally different ball game, add Dirac room correction, I don't think it's a fair comparison, in my humble opinion.
 
samysound said:
At the price premium NAD is charging, I expect at least basic inputs to function properly. The M10 and several other NAD devices have had faulty digital inputs that, it sound like, have only recently been fixed via firmware.
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As I said, I disagree with the price premium part, but yes, valid point, at any price point what a product aim to offer should function flawlessly and this product deserves criticism.
 
Be interesting to see how it stacks.[/QUOTE]
miniDSP has some very intriguing products at what appear to be decent pricing too. :D
 
PeteL said:
Maybe better measured performance, yes one box. But a Bluetooth antenna don't make it a network streamer, totally different ball game, add Dirac room correction, I don't think it's a fair comparison, in my humble opinion.
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I don't disagree. I suspect the NAD is the better all around product for many.
That said I'd love to see the test of that.
 
I think the comparable for this should be miniDSP SHD + 2-ch Class D power amp of comparable power. This is not a big integration with two units. You will then have to balance the availability of HDMI input for ARC vs saving about $1k or so and measurably better performance.

But it is all the glitches with NAD that really makes this show up bad. People who want a convenient one-box plug and play should get plug and forget not plug and fight.

As to the legacy of NAD, they were known for above average performance for below average price (in the audiophile world not the mass-market boxes). Now, it seems like below average performance for above average price.

The mass market brands have grown in performance to challenge units like this at a better features/price ratio.
 
Vasr said:
I think the comparable for this should be miniDSP SHD + 2-ch Class D power amp of comparable power. This is not a big integration with two units. You will then have to balance the availability of HDMI input for ARC vs saving about $1k or so and measurably better performance.

But it is all the glitches with NAD that really makes this show up bad. People who want a convenient one-box plug and play should get plug and forget not plug and fight.

As to the legacy of NAD, they were known for above average performance for below average price (in the audiophile world not the mass-market boxes). Now, it seems like below average performance for above average price.

The mass market brands have grown in performance to challenge units like this at a better features/price ratio.
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Well as you stated the price is likely fair for now and really I agree. These are all early gen products and I anticipate in couple years they will indeed cost much less for even better performance.
That MiniDSP SHD (not the "power" but the regular model) really shines when talking about the active crossovers. Currently I use a mini DSP 2×4hd in a couple DIY active sets I am playing with. I almost grabbed the SHD a few times but I just don't quite need the extra quality and features yet.
This of course is a niche usage (active monitors) but it is really appreciated in my world. MiniDSP has made it accessible and relatively easy.
 
iLoveCats said:
I've been waiting for this review for a long time. I've thoroughly enjoyed my M10 for over a year. Its in my living room on my main viewing TV for sound and its driving some Magnepan MMG's. I listen to Tidal every day and occasionally records. I've been dreading that its going to be a terrible measuring device like the NAD AVR's but it isn't. I almost never use the touch screen. I run it from my phone for Tidal. I have the cable TV remote programmed to it for TV volume. It turns on with the TV and turns itself off with no input. I can also do all of this from a MacBook Air that always in the living room and frequently in use. I love this little box. Also it was $2500 before the China trading wars started.
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Hi there, are you using the HDMI eARC input to connect to TV? If so, does the CEC control work well and does it switch the inputs automatically? (e.g. switch to optical to HDMI one the connected tv is powered on)
 
ROOSKIE said:
Yes you could but that defeats the purpose of this design. This is for people who want it all in one single box & a small box at that.

The performance is mediocre and the price is high compared to separates but in reality where are the one box competitors priced at?
Anyway this box is headed in the right direction but it sure could use some extra engineering efforts AND a drop in price to something like $1500-2K.
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i'm in that group of people, and my shortlist currently consists of Arcam SA30, Lyngdorf TDAI 1120, Uniti Atom (no room dsp though) and of course NAD M10.

That said i recently found out about Onkyo TX 8390 which is a stereo AVR with the same feature set.

As you can see HDMI integration is important for me as it will be in my living room connected to the TV and the HDMI-CEC helps in the ease of TV use for the missus and the kid...
 
travis.86 said:
i'm in that group of people, and my shortlist currently consists of Arcam SA30, Lyngdorf TDAI 1120, Uniti Atom (no room dsp though) and of course NAD M10.

That said i recently found out about Onkyo TX 8390 which is a stereo AVR with the same feature set.

As you can see HDMI integration is important for me as it will be in my living room connected to the TV and the HDMI-CEC helps in the ease of TV use for the missus and the kid...
Click to expand...

There is also the Denon DRA-800h which has hdmi arc, HEOS, but no room correction. It is $500.

If you want a more elegant form factor, I see nothing that beats the value of the Sonos amp: HDMI, lossless streaming and gobs of class D power for $600 USD.
 
When I had the NAD M10 I could hear hissing, to loud/much compared to other units I have tested.
 
WoodyTobiasJr said:
There is also the Denon DRA-800h which has hdmi arc, HEOS, but no room correction. It is $500.

If you want a more elegant form factor, I see nothing that beats the value of the Sonos amp: HDMI, lossless streaming and gobs of class D power for $600 USD.
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unfortunately in Asia where I’m at the Sonos retails for 800 USD with the Powernode 2i at 950 USD.

at these prices seems like the Bluesound would be a better choice
 
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