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NAD M10 Streaming Amplifier Review

Sukram

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I have the simple VTV Purifi power amp, no special opamp. Identical modules as in Armim's
Review and Measurements of Purifi 1ET400A Amplifier. I can tell you I won't need more power amplifier.
 

Kachda

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I have the simple VTV Purifi power amp, no special opamp. Identical modules as in Armim's
Review and Measurements of Purifi 1ET400A Amplifier. I can tell you I won't need more power amplifier.
Till you think you do ;)
 

Jone5

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Volume design flaw on M10? I recently acquired this amplifier, but I find the volume control not having enough headroom to listen to quiet songs/albums at a very loud level. I literally have to turn the volume to the maximum to get the listening level I prefer for serious listening.

It seems that they have assumed that dBFS level of the digital signal (maybe regardless of input signal bit depth) approximately corresponds to the maximum output of the amplifier module. The preamplifier stage does not allow/support amplification of the input digital signal even if the internal bit depth must be greater than the streamed content. Anyone else facing similar issue?

In my previous amp, Lyngdorf TDAI-2170, the volume control went to +10dB which indicates that the digital signal is amplified beyond its original max level/full scale. For similar songs I remember setting the volume around 0dB. I assume the power output to 8ohm is approximately similar on these amps, a bit below 100W.

Sidenote: I'm streaming the content from Spotify, which does not integrate with BluOS. Using Spotify Connect disables the replaygain control at least in the iOS Spotify app, and the replaygain option on BluOS app does not affect content streamed outside the app. And preferably I would not like to use replaygain for getting around this issue. Yesterday I activated my Tidal account and I'll try the integration with BluOS and the loudness equalization.

Edit: Otherwise the amp sounds and functions great :) Maybe it has even bit more punch in the bass at loud levels and I prefer the Dirac roomcorrection over the Lyngdorf's "take it or leave it" type of approach.
 

iLoveCats

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Volume design flaw on M10?
I know what you mean with the volume on quieter sources. I switched out a 40db MM phono stage for a 43db MM phono stage because my records are too quiet on the M10
 

pjug

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Volume design flaw on M10? I recently acquired this amplifier, but I find the volume control not having enough headroom to listen to quiet songs/albums at a very loud level. I literally have to turn the volume to the maximum to get the listening level I prefer for serious listening.
From NAD specs:
  • Input sensitivity (for 100 W in 8 ohms)
  • Line In: 1.0 V
    Digital In: -6.2 %FS
In the Stereophile review JA comments that the analog gain is low. Maybe of enough owners complain NAD can address it in firmware.
 

Jone5

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From NAD specs:
  • Input sensitivity (for 100 W in 8 ohms)
  • Line In: 1.0 V
    Digital In: -6.2 %FS
In the Stereophile review JA comments that the analog gain is low. Maybe of enough owners complain NAD can address it in firmware.

I assume % is a typo, should it be -6.2 dBFS or otherwise I don't understand the notation :) It doesn't sound that low sensitivity, but I'm not an expert on this matter. I actually tried to get through the NAD customer service with my issue and firmware update suggestion, but I did not get past the regular customer service (at least yet).

I also found other people complaining about the same thing: https://www.avsforum.com/threads/na...ive-at-ces-2019.3041128/page-22#post-59026832 (also mentions of oddly low volume earlier in the thread).
 

pjug

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I assume % is a typo, should it be -6.2 dBFS
Yes I think -6.2dBFS is right, although it is in the manual as % too. JA's measurement is 15.8V output for -12dB input. So the digital gain seems OK but analog is low.
 

Jone5

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I just got a very informative and useful response from NAD customer support: using dirac limits/drops the headroom by 10dB to enable the corrections (boost). To test this I need to maybe reset the amp to factory defaults to fully clear dirac info (dirac menu options appear only after dirac setup) or at least setting the dirac off from the menu doesn’t affect max volume. The iOS dirac live app doesn’t have any master volume or so, is this same in the desktop app?

Edit: Update on the Dirac headroom: When dirac is turned on the last dBs on the volume (-10dB...0dB) doesn't seem to be increasing the perceived loudness (not measurement to back this up, but I'm pretty sure thats how the headroom is implemented). While turning the dirac off from the menu I can clearly hear that the loudness increases while dialing past -10dB. This is a bit disappointing feature, assuming the minimum input sensitivity (-6dBFS) the users are left with 1/10th of the specified output power...
 
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Waynefi

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Hello,

I ran into your forum while reading about the M10. I found many of the comments and results interesting. Rather then discuss specifics said, I will comment that my M10 sounds pretty good, works flawlessly, interfaces with everything perfectly , like ROON and Dirac. I ham currently using it with some Larsen speakers. I did purchase the Dirac full program. I have spent 10's of thousands of dollars thru the years on this hobby. This is the cheapest system I have owned. I guess I am tired of 50 pound turntables, 60 pound amplifiers, vinyl, disc players, etc....... Oh yes and 80 pound speakers( of which I have a pair of Revel F208's around here somewhere to get rid of). This unit, along with Roon, Dirac, Qobuz, and backing up all my SACD's, give me everything I need in a few lightweight small boxes. I listen to more music now in one siting than I ever could before

I did like the comments and idea of the VTV Amp, that a member above mentioned. Another small lightweight box, physically the M10 would look awesome sitting right of top of it.
 
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I also just found the M10 review after having had this thing for a bit more than a year. I have to say I love it and was a bit disappointed to see it got anything less than stellar reviews :[. I was reading through this thread in hopes of seeing among some of the negative someone putting together a system of separate components that would be a 'NAD M10 killer' but it seems nobody was able to put something together unfortunately. I've been trying to put one together based on what I read and I've got:

BluSound Node 2i (BluOS Streamer) - $550
Minidsp DDRC-22D (Dirac DSP) - $700

anddd that's about all I've got lol. Not sure what dac/amp and whatever else you would need to get an HDMI input and 2 sub outputs. Any help?

Reasons I love the NAD M10 are for it's ease of use and 1 box solution. This was my first system with some Ascend Sierra 2EX speakers and everything just works and sounds amazing especially when you really get the hang of Dirac that thing takes the whole setup to the next level. The ability to control everything with my phone via BluOS app, including changing the settings of the M10 such as the filters or restarting the device if it starts acting wonky. I can't remember the last time I had to get up and physically touch the device.

I also like knowing I'm doing everything wirelessly but still at lossless quality via the ethernet has been phenomenal and then you have a those few instances you need to use Bluetooth which had come in handy. Regarding the Dirac filters...they let you store I think up to 4-5 filters and I've got some bass boosted ones I use for movies and flat response ones for music. And during Covid some of my favorite artists have been streaming through Twitch, so I got the NVidia shield which has a Twitch app plugged into the TV and playing that through the NAD M10 via HDMI. This whole setup so far has felt extremely nice to me and has honestly been life changing as a first system. It's all come in very clutch during the lockdowns of Covid and has kept me from going insane haha. I'm away from home right now visiting family for the holidays and already missing my system.

With all that said if you guys know of a system I can build with separates for a similar price +/- 500 and similar functionality that will sound noticeably better I would love to hear it for when upgraditus inevitably strikes. :]
BTW I've noticed some ambiguity on the price here, just for reference I paid 2,350 at SafeAndSound online around Aug 2019. Not sure if they increased the price or if you can haggle back down to there?
 
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Kachda

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I also just found the M10 review after having had this thing for a bit more than a year. I have to say I love it and was a bit disappointed to see it got anything less than stellar reviews :[. I was reading through this thread in hopes of seeing among some of the negative someone putting together a system of separate components that would be a 'NAD M10 killer' but it seems nobody was able to put something together unfortunately. I've been trying to put one together based on what I read and I've got:

BluSound Node 2i (BluOS Streamer) - $550
Minidsp DDRC-22D (Dirac DSP) - $700

anddd that's about all I've got lol. Not sure what dac/amp and whatever else you would need to get an HDMI input and 2 sub outputs. Any help?

Reasons I love the NAD M10 are for it's ease of use and 1 box solution. This was my first system with some Ascend Sierra 2EX speakers and everything just works and sounds amazing especially when you really get the hang of Dirac that thing takes the whole setup to the next level. The ability to control everything with my phone via BluOS app, including changing the settings of the M10 such as the filters or restarting the device if it starts acting wonky. I can't remember the last time I had to get up and physically touch the device.

I also like knowing I'm doing everything wirelessly but still at lossless quality via the ethernet has been phenomenal and then you have a those few instances you need to use Bluetooth which had come in handy. Regarding the Dirac filters...they let you store I think up to 4-5 filters and I've got some bass boosted ones I use for movies and flat response ones for music. And during Covid some of my favorite artists have been streaming through Twitch, so I got the NVidia shield which has a Twitch app plugged into the TV and playing that through the NAD M10 via HDMI. This whole setup so far has felt extremely nice to me and has honestly been life changing as a first system. It's all come in very clutch during the lockdowns of Covid and has kept me from going insane haha. I'm away from home right now visiting family for the holidays and already missing my system.

With all that said if you guys know of a system I can build with separates for a similar price +/- 500 and similar functionality that will sound noticeably better I would love to hear it for when upgraditus inevitably strikes. :]
BTW I've noticed some ambiguity on the price here, just for reference I paid 2,350 at SafeAndSound online around Aug 2019. Not sure if they increased the price or if you can haggle back down to there?
I’d suggest reading again, for example there are some suggestions of using a minidsp shd plus a nc502mp hypex based amp for a grand total of about 1800-2000 which technically should perform better and will have way more power, though audibly it may not be miles ahead because the nad m10 seems to be good enough
 
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Dj7675

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I’d suggest reading again, for example there are some suggestions of using a minidsp shd plus a nc502mp hypex based amp for a grand total of about 1800-2000 which technically should perform better and will have way more power, though audibly it may not a miles ahead because the nad m10 seems to be good enough
Yep. If you go after absolute performance SHD/Purify or Hypex amp of your choice will outperform it. Just depends what you want and if you want display hooked up to it or not. M10 would be quite a bit more user friendly to set up, and has the advantage of HDMI if integrating it in a room with a display.
 
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Yep. If you go after absolute performance SHD/Purify or Hypex amp of your choice will outperform it. Just depends what you want and if you want display hooked up to it or not. M10 would be quite a bit more user friendly to set up, and has the advantage of HDMI if integrating it in a room with a display.

Thanks, yeah I'm definitely hunting value/performance. I like the idea of separates because I can get best-in-class amp/dac/dsp which should remain stable and then the streamer tech just might need to be replaced every so often.

The SHD streamer doesn't fit the bill for me as it has Volumio and is an integrated component with DSP+Streamer. I'm looking at:

NODE 2i (Streamer) - 550$
DDRC-22D (DSP with Dirac...does this thing have bass management ?_?) - 600$
Some Purify base (Amp)
RME ADI2 (Dac that was mentioned here)

But where can I get an HDMI input into this chain and multiple sub outs 2-4? Would you need the SHD just for the subouts and an AVR for video? So far I'm finding that getting a comparable setup to the M10 to be a bit of work, but I'm determined! haha
 
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