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NAD M10 Streaming Amplifier Lab Report...
- Thread starter BillG
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- May 8, 2020
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If the volume level of the sub woofer is lower than that of the main speaker by connecting two subwoofer, the same problem as mine is correct,
As a result of e-mail inquiries to NAD,
It is said that m10 may have a lower output than the sub out of other companies' intiamps.
However, the low output was suspected to be defective because of the difference of -10db in my case.
NAD failed to provide a solution and I was disappointed and refunded.
It didn't matter if I turned up the volume of the sub-woofer, but I was very reluctant.
Personally, I think it's better to buy minidsp's shd power
if the convenience of operating the front display of the nad m10 and the blus application are not a problem.
I plan to.
5wavesup
Member
For those considering the M10; The sub output is fine before DIRAC is engaged. I did not feel the need to adjust the sub gain after moving from the Emotiva A300 to the M10. If anything I had to turn it down. The story changes dramatically after going through the DIRAC process. The sub output dropped significantly and it did not matter where I set the gain on the sub itself. As I stated previously all I had to do was adjust the sub gain to half way on the sub and move the sub gain higher in the DIRAC application during the measurement process. "Problem" solved. It's not a NAD M10 sub out thing.
@5wavesup are you using 1 or 2 subs?
In any case, I ended up returning my M10 as I was having low sub output signal even before running dirac. I asked NAD support what he output voltage on the sub outs was specified at and I am still waiting after several weeks for an answer.
Ive placed an order for a minidsp SHD instead...
In any case, I ended up returning my M10 as I was having low sub output signal even before running dirac. I asked NAD support what he output voltage on the sub outs was specified at and I am still waiting after several weeks for an answer.
Ive placed an order for a minidsp SHD instead...
5wavesup
Member
@samysound I am using one sub. Oh ok, fair enough. Hope you enjoy the SHD.
Now that my review is published, I can say that the unit I tested met the power spec with no problem. I didn't measure A-weighted SINAD, but unweighted was 82dB under the same conditions, so meeting the 85 dB weighted spec seems more than likely.
If streaming is not your thing, this isn't the unit to buy. If it is... well... I bought it.
should be added that problems (potentially fixable via TBD firmware update?) were found with some of the digital inputs which seems similar to the issues Amir found in his review of other NAD products.
A minidsp SHD (with full Dirac) paired with Ncore based stereo amplifier and roon can be had for around the same retail $ as the NAD M10. However, the elegance of the all in one with slick touch screen is lost and setup is a little more involved (albeit less buggy than the M10).
Yes, analog, USB, and streaming inputs all worked perfectly. All spdif (optical and coaxial) had the loss of lock issue. The firmware updates as of this past weekend have not fixed this.
Sorry if some of this is dumb or incorrect, but first post and I'm just trying to learn more about all of these measurements if anyone smarter than me can help.
I am considering the NAD M10 because I'm looking for a 2.2 solution with Dirac and Bass Management, and this has Dirac and Dirac Bass Control.
The miniDSP SHD looked interesting and measured well with a SINAD of 111 dB, and I was considering pairing that with a stereo purifi 1ET400A amp from VTV, but it may not get Dirac Bass Control, and also I have a home automation system that the NAD with BluOS will better integrate with. Further, I think the touchscreen on the NAD is something my wife would be able to use more easily than for example using Audirvana to stream to the miniDSP SHD and control via a separate app. If the NAD will be noticeably worse, I could still go that route though.
The NAD C658 looked like it measured pretty poorly, so that didn't seem like a contender. In particular, I believe the SINAD was measured by Amir around 90dB.
Looking at the hifinews measurements of the NAD M10, they appear to show the following for SNR and distortion:
A-wtd S/N ratio (Digital/Amplifier)111.7dB (0dBFs) / 82.5dB (0dBW)
Distortion (20Hz-20kHz, Digital/Amp)0.0003-0.018%/0.004–0.084%
My understanding is that SINAD is a function of SNR+D, so if we assume the measurements from hifinews as accurate, could we derive the SINAD for both just the pre-out and also for with the amplifier, and if so, how would that be done and what would the values be?
It seems that the amplifier section is adding a lot of noise for some reason even with it being nCore (111.7dB vs 82.5dB) so I was wondering if I didn't use the amp in the M10, but instead fed the pre-out to another amp such as the stereo purifi 1ET400A amp from VTV, if I would end up with a well enough measuring solution, albeit paying for an amp section I'm not using.
The other option would be the NAD M33, which VintageFlanker had posted the HFN lab report for as pasted below. Could the SINAD similarly be derived and what would the values be for the analogue and digital sources there?
The M33 appears to measure better, but if that is only due to the amp section performing better, I was contemplating if I could just pickup a M10 and add the purifi amp to the pre's to still get something that measures well, but costs less and just requires one more box.
Thanks in advance for any help or guidance on all of this stuff.
I am considering the NAD M10 because I'm looking for a 2.2 solution with Dirac and Bass Management, and this has Dirac and Dirac Bass Control.
The miniDSP SHD looked interesting and measured well with a SINAD of 111 dB, and I was considering pairing that with a stereo purifi 1ET400A amp from VTV, but it may not get Dirac Bass Control, and also I have a home automation system that the NAD with BluOS will better integrate with. Further, I think the touchscreen on the NAD is something my wife would be able to use more easily than for example using Audirvana to stream to the miniDSP SHD and control via a separate app. If the NAD will be noticeably worse, I could still go that route though.
The NAD C658 looked like it measured pretty poorly, so that didn't seem like a contender. In particular, I believe the SINAD was measured by Amir around 90dB.
Looking at the hifinews measurements of the NAD M10, they appear to show the following for SNR and distortion:
A-wtd S/N ratio (Digital/Amplifier)111.7dB (0dBFs) / 82.5dB (0dBW)
Distortion (20Hz-20kHz, Digital/Amp)0.0003-0.018%/0.004–0.084%
My understanding is that SINAD is a function of SNR+D, so if we assume the measurements from hifinews as accurate, could we derive the SINAD for both just the pre-out and also for with the amplifier, and if so, how would that be done and what would the values be?
It seems that the amplifier section is adding a lot of noise for some reason even with it being nCore (111.7dB vs 82.5dB) so I was wondering if I didn't use the amp in the M10, but instead fed the pre-out to another amp such as the stereo purifi 1ET400A amp from VTV, if I would end up with a well enough measuring solution, albeit paying for an amp section I'm not using.
The other option would be the NAD M33, which VintageFlanker had posted the HFN lab report for as pasted below. Could the SINAD similarly be derived and what would the values be for the analogue and digital sources there?
The M33 appears to measure better, but if that is only due to the amp section performing better, I was contemplating if I could just pickup a M10 and add the purifi amp to the pre's to still get something that measures well, but costs less and just requires one more box.
Thanks in advance for any help or guidance on all of this stuff.
Check out the review in AudioXpress, which (in all due modesty) is much more comprehensive. Whether this is the right unit for you will very much depend on how you’re going to use it.
I will say that I bought the review sample, and knowing the limitations, I’ve been incredibly happy with the sound. The Dirac implementation is superb.
Thanks, I actually did buy the latest issue to read the review. Did you happen to measure the pre-out? If so, what page was it on or which figure was it in the review. I wanted to get a sense of if I could get better performance by using a different amp and using this as a pre-amp.
My aim is to use this for listening to 2-channel music streaming with room correction and base management, and there doesn't appear to be many competitors out there. I'm really trying to decide between the NAD solution or miniDSP SHD.
Ive owned both the NAD M10 (I returned it) and a minidsp SHD. Some things to consider:
1. Dirac bass control is not available on either currently. NAD has at least mentioned it will be at some point. minidsp has not stated either way.
2. The dirac user interface is better integrated with the M10
3. The SHD has more flexibility/user control with bass management (i.e. cross-over slopes, delays, ect.) this may be a moot point if dirac bass control becomes available
4. Roon is stable for me with the SHD
5. The user interface and design is really nice with the NAD M10, the SHD is old school in this regard
6. The digital inputs on he NAD are wonky and no fix was issued while I had the unit. Not sure if that has changed
7. I went with the SHD+March 502 stereo ncore amp +Roon which works out to nearly the same cost as a M10
Hope this helps....
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I didn’t, but if there’s anything particular you’d like to see, I’d be glad to run it. The amps are more than adequate- the only reason to use a different power amp is to get higher power. At the moment, I have the pre outs connected to a 400 watt amp I’m reviewing, but when I send that back, I won’t feel like I’m missing anything sonically by going back to the built in nCore amps. Dead silent and absolutely clean.
Thanks. Your review has me leaning toward buying the unit as I think it there really isn't anything else that get's me what I'm looking for. I have two setups I would be getting it for, and one of them I'd need more power, so was still interested in the pre-out measurement.
I think mostly I wanted to be able to compare the pre-out of the NAD M10 to the output of the miniDSP SHD done by Amir. In particular, I was interested in the SINAD and THD+N Ratio at around 2V output for 1kHz , and THD+N Ratio vs frequency response. Also did you see any ESS hump in the intermodulation distortion?
Definitely helpful in considering, thanks. Besides the digital input issues, for streaming, did you find your setup to be a significant upgrade from the M10?
I prefer roon for music management/streaming which makes the BluOS a moot point for me. I also like the range of cross-over slopes and frequencies and also the ability to adjust gain on the outputs with the SHD. The higher power output with my separate amp also gives me more flexibility with room size and speakers.
I can do those over the weekend. I didn't look for the ESS hump because, frankly, I think that it's unimportant from an audibility standpoint. I'm much less hung up on SINAD than Amir is, because (IMO) it lumps together too many different and unrelated things, and can and does get heavily weighted toward things which can't be heard. However, it's an easy measurement while I have things hooked up.
The streaming capabilities are absolutely wonderful. If only spdif worked properly...
