NAD C658 Streaming DAC Review

[Dave54321]

I have been very interested in the NAD c658 for its' feature set and seemingly reasonable price point. I was very disheartened to see the results of Amir's review.

While the unit/software is definitely buggy:
https://www.avsforum.com/forum/90-receivers-amps-processors/3038854-official-nad-c658-thread.html
there are also many people and reviews (granted subjective) which are quite positive.

Amir's review has been the only objective review I could find . . . until now:
https://topnewreview.com/nad-c-658-streaming-dac-review/

Admittedly, it is not as detailed as Amir's reviewing methods. Also, the images of the frequency response and distortion seem to be thumbnails only. But the review purports to have measured the NAD c658 with plausible results : "Left and right outputs differed in quantisation noise level and therefore dynamic range, Right measuring 113dB and Left 118dB (EIAJ Dynamic Range) – a large difference. " and other comments seem plausible to my VERY unlearned/newbie perspective.

If the review on topnewreview.com is to be believed, then something was very wrong with the unit Amir reviewed.

You may also note the review is not tagged with a date of publication. Going through the source code, it appears the topnewreview article was published 3-12-2020 and modified 3-13-2020.

Thoughts?

An aside, do you think the miniDSP SHD will support Dirac Bass Management?

 

[downbythepylons]

Dave thanks for the update...im also having a hard time deciding between the C658 v. Minidsp SHD. Ill take a look at the topreview

 

[Instar]

I have been very interested in the NAD c658 for its' feature set and seemingly reasonable price point. I was very disheartened to see the results of Amir's review.

While the unit/software is definitely buggy:
https://www.avsforum.com/forum/90-receivers-amps-processors/3038854-official-nad-c658-thread.html
there are also many people and reviews (granted subjective) which are quite positive.

Amir's review has been the only objective review I could find . . . until now:
https://topnewreview.com/nad-c-658-streaming-dac-review/

Admittedly, it is not as detailed as Amir's reviewing methods. Also, the images of the frequency response and distortion seem to be thumbnails only. But the review purports to have measured the NAD c658 with plausible results : "Left and right outputs differed in quantisation noise level and therefore dynamic range, Right measuring 113dB and Left 118dB (EIAJ Dynamic Range) – a large difference. " and other comments seem plausible to my VERY unlearned/newbie perspective.

If the review on topnewreview.com is to be believed, then something was very wrong with the unit Amir reviewed.

You may also note the review is not tagged with a date of publication. Going through the source code, it appears the topnewreview article was published 3-12-2020 and modified 3-13-2020.

Thoughts?

An aside, do you think the miniDSP SHD will support Dirac Bass Management?

In fact I inquired minidsp and dirac Live about DLBC, respectively.

In the case of minidsp, it is not yet available to inform under the roadmap.

In the case of dirac live, all devices that support dirac live will be supported if certain conditions are met.

shd said it was at minidsp's discretion.

But that particular condition refers to exclusive subwoofer output.

Dedicated subwoofer output is in the newly released shd power.

That's why shd power is more likely to receive dlbc support first for the next update.

shd does not have a dedicated subwoofer output but just has 4 output terminals.

So I'm not sure about this.

Shd is expected to take a very long time if supported.

 

[Brian6751]

I have both the C658 and the SHD. I need to spend more time with them. Preliminary subjective opinion is they both sound great after Dirac, but I do have an issue with the C658. Currently, you cannot set delay for the subwoofers so if I want to better integrate the subs together and with the mains, I would need to use my MiniDSP HD. Dirac Bass Control would fix this but who knows if the 658 will get it...

I made a ticket for it with Bluesound and they told my to use the phase on the subwoofers.....

 

[JDRCapeCod]

I actually ordered the C658 today. I spoke with the dealer regarding my concerns and he told me that he would take it back if I wasn't happy with the unit. I chose it basically because it was the only product that I could find that would meet my needs (preamp, built in dirac, phono and analog inputs, streaming capabilities that I can control with my URC Total Control system via a two-way module, and IP control). I was considering the SHD, but the streaming solution would not have worked for my control system. Currently I am using a Yamaha CX-800 preamp from the 80's, and like the sound of it, so I am guessing I will be happy with the NAD. I am also just running a two channel system without subs. If this thing pops once, I am kicking it to the curb. Ain't got time for that! It was ordered from Lenbrook today, so it should be "fresh stock" and have the latest firmware and updates. I will be using it with a March Audio P252 driving a pair of Definitive Technology ST-L speakers. I should have it set up sometime next week and will post my findings. It looks like I need to pay $99 to get full Dirac on this. I already have a Dirac license from my MiniDSP DDRC-24...I am guessing that it won't work but who knows?

I figured that I have nothing to lose but some time since the dealer will take it back.

 

[Alexanderc]

I actually ordered the C658 today. I spoke with the dealer regarding my concerns and he told me that he would take it back if I wasn't happy with the unit. I chose it basically because it was the only product that I could find that would meet my needs (preamp, built in dirac, phono and analog inputs, streaming capabilities that I can control with my URC Total Control system via a two-way module, and IP control). I was considering the SHD, but the streaming solution would not have worked for my control system. Currently I am using a Yamaha CX-800 preamp from the 80's, and like the sound of it, so I am guessing I will be happy with the NAD. I am also just running a two channel system without subs. If this thing pops once, I am kicking it to the curb. Ain't go time for that! It was ordered from Lenbrook today, so it should be "fresh stock" and have the latest firmware and updates. I will be using it with a March Audio P252 driving a pair of Definitive Technology ST-L speakers. I should have it set up sometime next week and will post my findings. It looks like I need to pay $99 to get full Dirac on this. I already have a Dirac license from my MiniDSP DDRC-24...I am guessing that it won't work but who knows?

I figured that I have nothing to lose but some time since the dealer will take it back.

It is a nice package. I hope you don’t have any problems!

 

[downbythepylons]

Great dealer! I should explore the demo optoon....

 

[sashi2]

...
It was ordered from Lenbrook...

Isn’t lenbrook a wholesaler? How did u order from it?

 

[JDRCapeCod]

Isn’t lenbrook a wholesaler? How did u order from it?

Lenbrook is the main company behind NAD, PSB and BlueOS. The dealer that I am getting it from did not have one is stock and is ordering it for me. He was the one who ordered it from Lenbrook. My point was that it was not sitting in a dealer store room for a while so it should be the latest version of the product. I feel pretty good about the purchase since NAD is a established company that should be good about making things right if there is an issue. When I started in the industry back in the 80's I used to sell NAD...the equipment sounded amazing for the money, but there was a time where the defective rate was very high...we use to joke that it stood for "Not Always Defective". But they stood behind the product and worked it out. I applaud them taking some risks on niche products that offer solutions that are not for the masses (like the C658). We will see how it works out.

 

[ichonderoga]

I actually ordered the C658 today. I spoke with the dealer regarding my concerns and he told me that he would take it back if I wasn't happy with the unit. I chose it basically because it was the only product that I could find that would meet my needs (preamp, built in dirac, phono and analog inputs, streaming capabilities that I can control with my URC Total Control system via a two-way module, and IP control). I was considering the SHD, but the streaming solution would not have worked for my control system. Currently I am using a Yamaha CX-800 preamp from the 80's, and like the sound of it, so I am guessing I will be happy with the NAD. I am also just running a two channel system without subs. If this thing pops once, I am kicking it to the curb. Ain't got time for that! It was ordered from Lenbrook today, so it should be "fresh stock" and have the latest firmware and updates. I will be using it with a March Audio P252 driving a pair of Definitive Technology ST-L speakers. I should have it set up sometime next week and will post my findings. It looks like I need to pay $99 to get full Dirac on this. I already have a Dirac license from my MiniDSP DDRC-24...I am guessing that it won't work but who knows?

I figured that I have nothing to lose but some time since the dealer will take it back.

Have you thought about other setup changes? As to not limit your options to just one in a world with so much great and cheap audio gear

 

[Brian6751]

I actually ordered the C658 today. I spoke with the dealer regarding my concerns and he told me that he would take it back if I wasn't happy with the unit. I chose it basically because it was the only product that I could find that would meet my needs (preamp, built in dirac, phono and analog inputs, streaming capabilities that I can control with my URC Total Control system via a two-way module, and IP control). I was considering the SHD, but the streaming solution would not have worked for my control system. Currently I am using a Yamaha CX-800 preamp from the 80's, and like the sound of it, so I am guessing I will be happy with the NAD. I am also just running a two channel system without subs. If this thing pops once, I am kicking it to the curb. Ain't got time for that! It was ordered from Lenbrook today, so it should be "fresh stock" and have the latest firmware and updates. I will be using it with a March Audio P252 driving a pair of Definitive Technology ST-L speakers. I should have it set up sometime next week and will post my findings. It looks like I need to pay $99 to get full Dirac on this. I already have a Dirac license from my MiniDSP DDRC-24...I am guessing that it won't work but who knows?

I figured that I have nothing to lose but some time since the dealer will take it back.

I think you will enjoy the C658. Dont bother with the HDMI card. There are not IR codes to select the HDMI inputs so its basically useless IMO.

Make sure to come back and let us know what you think!

 

[JDRCapeCod]

Have you thought about other setup changes? As to not limit your options to just one in a world with so much great and cheap audio gear

Thanks for your input. Yes, I have looked at a ton of different gear and this was the only product that did what I wanted at a low(er) price. Most of the great inexpensive gear doesn't have the control options that I require for my control system. I did look at the Topping devices and they wouldn't work for me since they did not have a phono (or any analog) inputs, and the control was sub-optimal (very simple IR commands). Even the Benchmark piece I looked at did not have a separate button for each analog input, it was a toggle command. NAD is very control friendly and that was important to me for my system. I also considered the Anthem preamp but it was at a different price point, I may end up there, but I wanted to see how this worked first. I am not sure if the CEDIA show will be happening, but that is usually where I dig in and see what is out there.

 

[JDRCapeCod]

I think you will enjoy the C658. Dont bother with the HDMI card. There are not IR codes to select the HDMI inputs so its basically useless IMO.

Make sure to come back and let us know what you think!

I just looked at the IP driver for the C658 and the code is pretty simple to figure out. Not sure if you can use IP, but I can probably help you once I get the unit and dig in a bit. I did not buy the card but I think I can help you with IP control.

 

[Brian6751]

I just looked at the IP driver for the C658 and the code is pretty simple to figure out. Not sure if you can use IP, but I can probably help you once I get the unit and dig in a bit. I did not buy the card but I think I can help you with IP control.

This would be for use with a Harmony remote. I think you need a physical remote to teach it codes. There is no way to input custom IR codes that Im aware of

 

[JDRCapeCod]

This would be for use with a Harmony remote. I think you need a physical remote to teach it codes. There is no way to input custom IR codes that Im aware of

I got you. You just enter a code number for the device and it loads the commands. If that is the case, you would be limited to the functionality that you currently have. Some devices have a computer programming interface where you can enter in IR Hex codes, etc.

 

[LuvTheMusic]

Like freedomgli, I did not take the results of measuring a "factory refurbished" unit too seriously, at least not without knowing the provenance of the device. There is no indication on the NAD website that they even have a refurbished unit program. A quick search (on this date) for refurbished NAD gear reveals only one instance of an authorized dealer who claims to have even one refurbished NAD product for sale - and that product is a discontinued one. Meanwhile, any seller on ebay or with a website can say that a particular piece of kit is "factory refurbished", which can mean whatever they say -- or mean nothing at all. Finally, the review linked by Dave54321 -- thanks, Dave! -- does not mention any difficulties obtaining measurements.

In light of the above, I purchased a (new) NAD C 658 a couple of weeks ago and everything seems just fine, particularly no popping. (Many of the complaints that I saw that referred to popping sounds said that the sounds were when no music was playing. It's hard to see what that would have to do with loss of digital signal lock.) No doubt the software went through the usual multiple iterations with the usual early bugs, which surely was frustrating for those who had to deal with the issues. But at this point, it looks well-designed to me and all has worked flawlessly.

As to sound, I have no way to do serious A/B comparisons to high-quality competitors, but it more than meets my reasonably demanding expectations (using streaming and coax connections to CD player and HD tuner). Surely the measurements that were taken here and elsewhere, while not truly outstanding, would not suggest audible difficulties.

BTW, I find it amusing that subjective impressions (in other forums, not here) directly contradict one other: some complain that the NAD is horribly bright, while others complain that it is too laid back and subdued. Both of those descriptions for the same piece of equipment is quite an accomplishment!

 

[JDRCapeCod]

I received and set up My C 658 yesterday morning. So far I am thrilled with the product. There have been no issues at all and I find the sound to exceed my expectations. I have not spent a lot of time listening, and I have yet to set up Dirac but so far everything is great. It's a unique piece of equipment that really fits the bill for me. It would have been great to have a single fixed audio output (either digital or analog). I will keep you all posted on my experience. I am using it with a March Audio P252 and the results are very pleasing.

 

[JDRCapeCod]

As many of you may know, you have to pay an additional $99 to unlock the full frequency version of Dirac Live on the C 658. I currently own a MiniDSP unit (that I will no longer be using since the NAD has Dirac built-in) and it looks like my existing license works fine with the C 658. Hoping to do some more listening in the next week to report back on the sound.

 

[ichonderoga]

As many of you may know, you have to pay an additional $99 to unlock the full frequency version of Dirac Live on the C 658. I currently own a MiniDSP unit (that I will no longer be using since the NAD has Dirac built-in) and it looks like my existing license works fine with the C 658. Hoping to do some more listening in the next week to report back on the sound.

Good to know. I think that $99 on top of the premium price this device already requires is a bit much. I would expect for a product in this price bracket that everything would be included, but this might very well be the "new normal". I've seen this on Marantz and Denon also where some feature upgrades (via software) would require further payment :-(

 

[SIY]

Good to know. I think that $99 on top of the premium price this device already requires is a bit much. I would expect for a product in this price bracket that everything would be included, but this might very well be the "new normal". I've seen this on Marantz and Denon also where some feature upgrades (via software) would require further payment :-(

80:20 rule. Many believe that correction below 500 Hz gets you nearly all the benefits, so why pay more? But for those who believe that a full spectrum correction is worthwhile, the extra expense is optional.

(IMO, it's worth it, $99 is small compared to the overal outlay, YMMV)