NAD C658 Streaming DAC Review

[Brian6751]

Are you basing it on measurements you've seen here or on their specs? Can you illustrate so that I understand how to look at these things?

Im just going by what was written here. JustJones said the distortion went away after lowering the 658 volume. Went away, not got lower. That sounds like clipping.

You could compare the input sensitivity of the McIntosh to the preout voltage of the 658 to see if there is a mismatch. Its not uncommon for outputs to overload or "clip" an input and cause what is referred to as a distorted sound

Is this due to a malfunction of the C658? I dont know

 

[sashi2]

thats one of the worst reviews Zeos has done. He obviously doesnt understand the product. Those of us that have actually used it the way its designed know it sounds great.

Yes, he jumped into conclusion rather quick. He has a point however.

 

[Brian6751]

Yes, he jumped into conclusion rather quick. He has a point however.

what is his point? It's expensive? That he can assemble a system with similar operation for less? Not really a point and thats why I say he doesn't understand the product. I mean, how many integrated HiFi products can be operationally replicated for less? A lot, but thats not the point.

IMO for what it does and how it performs, it is NOT over priced. Its priced very fairly

 

[SIY]

Would like to see the NAD M10 get tested...hopefully someone will send it in.

I am just wrapping up a review of this for AudioXpress.

 

[JustJones]

I don't have anything to measure with but the distortion was pretty apparent, my wife asked me what was wrong. The distortion happened on more than that one album it's just it was very loud on that particular one which is why I remembered it. I changed the volume to variable reduced it to -5 dB from 0dB and it sounded fine, while it was playing I increased back to 0dB distortion returned. I assumed it had something to do with clipping from the NAD being to loud the McIntosh has protection circuits and the volume on that was only about one third. I didn't do any objective measurements so it could have been something else. I had a Node2i before I got the NAD. I used it on fixed never had a problem. I mainly got the NAD for Dirac and if I was using it with a power amp instead of an integrated probably would have never known about it.

 

[sashi2]

I am just wrapping up a review of this for AudioXpress.

View attachment 56592

Please post a link here if possible

 

[sashi2]

what is his point? It's expensive? That he can assemble a system with similar operation for less? Not really a point and thats why I say he doesn't understand the product. I mean, how many integrated HiFi products can be operationally replicated for less? A lot, but thats not the point.

IMO for what it does and how it performs, it is NOT over priced. Its priced very fairly

Money is a huge factor for most and most of his reviews are based on how much you get for what you paid. That is his point and i don't understand why you say it's not

 

[SIY]

Please post a link here if possible

Print magazine, but all the cool kids subscribe.

 

[jtwrace]

I am just wrapping up a review of this for AudioXpress.

View attachment 56592

Do you have an AP too? If not, maybe Amir could do the suite of measurements for your article and post them here for us too. Win-Win

 

[Brian6751]

Money is a huge factor for most and most of his reviews are based on how much you get for what you paid. That is his point and i don't understand why you say it's not

Because he obviously misses the point of the product. The M10 is not competing with a stack of bang for your buck type components. Its got an Ncore amp, a BluOS streamer, Sabre DAC, HDMI ARC, Dirac(did he even use Dirac?) Bass Management, analog and digital inputs, auto source switching, and its the size of a shoebox. It looks great. I cant think of another integrated amp that can do everything it does. AND it sounds fantastic.

But, I would argue he CANNOT put together a stack of components that can do everything the M10 can do for less. Maybe similar, but it wont be the same and it wont have the looks or form factor.

He likes bang for your buck and isnt into the "HiFi" scene. Thats fine, but I think he was knowingly trying to poo-poo the M10 unfairly. He knows he wasn't reviewing it within the same use category it was designed for.

 

[SIY]

Do you have an AP too?

Yes, I do, and have the APx1701 transducer interface as well. The measurements on Dirac Live were particularly interesting...

 

[sashi2]

Because he obviously misses the point of the product. The M10 is not competing with a stack of bang for your buck type components. Its got an Ncore amp, a BluOS streamer, Sabre DAC, HDMI ARC, Dirac(did he even use Dirac?) Bass Management, analog and digital inputs, auto source switching, and its the size of a shoebox. It looks great. I cant think of another integrated amp that can do everything it does. AND it sounds fantastic.

But, I would argue he CANNOT put together a stack of components that can do everything the M10 can do for less. Maybe similar, but it wont be the same and it wont have the looks or form factor.

He likes bang for your buck and isnt into the "HiFi" scene. Thats fine, but I think he was knowingly trying to poo-poo the M10 unfairly. He knows he wasn't reviewing it within the same use category it was designed for.

his reviews are very subjective and he's making no secret of it - take it or leave it

 

[sashi2]

Print magazine, but all the cool kids subscribe.

they still have those?

 

[Brian6751]

his reviews are very subjective and he's making no secret of it - take it or leave it

I agree, but when you linked to his M10 review with "...this not very flattering video review:", I thought I would add my opinion of his opinion being as I have actually used it and understood its features

 

[EB1000]

OK, after conducting multiple blind AB tests using my wife's help, I can conclude that there is in fact something terribly wring with ALL external digital inputs! I've compared the same track played internally via Bluos library playback and then played externally via optical input from my PC using Foobar2000 WASPI. The differences are HUGE! The external digital playback sounds lifeless compared to the internal network playback... Very disappointed with NAD. The biggest question is whether this is a hardware bug or just a firmware bug? I've contacted NAD support, but I doubt if they'll be any help...

Can anyone else also do a similar test?

Thanks

 

[SIY]

How did you level match? Did you verify that these were the identical masters?

I’ve found some issues with the digital input on some NAD products, but not what you’re describing.

 

[bluefuzz]

Can anyone else also do a similar test?

I just tried the same track streamed from my NAS via the BluOS player, Vero4k (OSMC) connected to optical input and AppleTV4k connected (via HDfury Diva) to the other optical input. Not a blind test, but they all sounded identical to me ...

 

[bluefuzz]

Just tried a CD version of the same track played from my Oppo BD93 to the coax input. Again identical ...

 

[freedomgli]

I think it’s unreasonable to write off a device just because a “refurbished” unit tests poorly. We all know that refurbished items are very much hit or miss and comes with substantial risk. Unfortunately, most manufacturers outsource returns, warranty repairs, and refurbishment for resale as B-stock. These 3rd parties are notorious for doing a cursory examination that is unlikely to address many potential quality issues (especially intermittent issues or edge use cases) and then passing the problem onto the next customer. Just look at all the many cautionary tales at buying refurbished AVRs from places like accessories4less.com. This applies to Denon, Marantz, Onkyo, Yamaha, etc.

I do recognize that some number of people have gotten bad units. The software is definitely a work in progress but that is the name of the game these days called agile software development. I’d put more trust in NAD/ Bluesound than many other boutique firms in terms of responsiveness and continuous improvement of software development over time. Some problem units were bought from authorized sellers and I don’t mean to minimize their experience. It sucks. But some problem units were bought in the grey market, which means there’s no guarantees at all. We all know how corrupt Chinese manufacturers can be and how rampant counterfeits are. And some “problem” units are attributed to user error.

Knock on wood but mine has been fine. I do wish it had a better DAC and the ability to use outboard DAC and upscaler. But for the price it does a lot and works well for me.

 

[Brian6751]

So I understand why this is supposedly broken, what results are worse than NAD's listed spec's?