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NAD C658 Streaming DAC Review

ajstrider

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Purchased a Dynaudio Sub 6 to go along with my Dynaudio XD30 powered speakers.

I can’t get the darn thing to work. I have 1 rca cable plugged in to the top sub port. Crossover set to 80 hz. I have chosen 1 sub from the NAD’s menu. I have the HDMI card that I connect my tv, and it pulls audio from the tv to play on the Dynaudio speakers.

I believe I have the latest firmware on the NAD, 3.18.10.

Any thoughts?
If its still under guarantee I would take the NAD back. Clearly the fault was present from purchase but you had no way of knowing until you had a sub. You could bring the sub to demonstrate the issue.
If not you could get the SUB ine output from the NAD measured by an independent "repair" technician and consider if you have any redress under consumer law in USA. Eg in UK the relevant consumer act states that goods should be " fit for the purpose it was designed and sold".
So many are bypassing the issue by workarounds yet others allegedly don't have a problem, perhaps because the input impedance on their sub is lower and the paltry output from the Nad combined with volume controls on the sub are sufficient to keep it from switching off.
NAD are content to keep selling and have not addressed the issue once they have our money. If more dealers were sending units back perhaps it would be different?
 

kenscott30

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If its still under guarantee I would take the NAD back. Clearly the fault was present from purchase but you had no way of knowing until you had a sub. You could bring the sub to demonstrate the issue.
If not you could get the SUB ine output from the NAD measured by an independent "repair" technician and consider if you have any redress under consumer law in USA. Eg in UK the relevant consumer act states that goods should be " fit for the purpose it was designed and sold".
So many are bypassing the issue by workarounds yet others allegedly don't have a problem, perhaps because the input impedance on their sub is lower and the paltry output from the Nad combined with volume controls on the sub are sufficient to keep it from switching off.
NAD are content to keep selling and have not addressed the issue once they have our money. If more dealers were sending units back perhaps it would be different?
Thank you for reply. I ended up restoring the sub to defaults and it worked. But. At low volumes the sub shuts off and won’t restart.

The NAD is frustrating for sure and not to freak out the thread but I’m curious about the bluesound node. It has HDMI in (apparently very low volume issues) and a digital out (lacking on the NAD unit). I might try the node and sell the NAD. I’ll investigate this in the coming weeks.
 

Conmoto22

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I just received the NAD C658 and was instantly disappointed that the sub out practically muted my SB3000. I've found relief in the SB's parametric EQ settings which allowed me to increase the sub up to 6db. I settled on 4.5 db and am happy for now.

Other than the sub out issue, my first impression is very positive. No more USB tethered to my DAC and the sound quality is making my Topping D90se sound like a toy. I thing the NAD's crossover is helping me hear things I couldn't before. I can't wait to try Dirac. If that offers any improvement, I consider this open box purchase a good one.
 
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Rufus T. Firefly

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I just received the NAD C658 and was instantly disappointed that the sub out practically muted my SB3000. I've found relief in the SB's parametric EQ settings which allowed me to increase the sub up to 6db. I settled on 4.5 db and am happy for now.

Other than the sub out issue, my first impression is very positive. No more USB tethered to my DAC and the sound quality is making my Topping D90se sound like a toy. I thing the NAD's crossover is helping me hear things I couldn't before. I can't wait to try Dirac. If that offers any improvement, I consider this open box purchase a good one.
Are you going to use Dirac?
 

Conmoto22

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I just received the NAD C658 and was instantly disappointed that the sub out practically muted my SB3000. I've found relief in the SB's parametric EQ settings which allowed me to increase the sub up to 6db. I settled on 4.5 db and am happy for now.

Other than the sub out issue, my first impression is very positive. No more USB tethered to my DAC and the sound quality is making my Topping D90se sound like a toy. I thing the NAD's crossover is helping me hear things I couldn't before. I can't wait to try Dirac. If that offers any improvement, I consider this open box purchase a good one.
I take back any negative things I said about the sub output. I wrote to NAD and received a reply in less than 24 hours. I now have all the sub output I need without using the parametric EQ on my SVS. I'm keeping the C 658 with zero regrets.
 

Dathzo

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I take back any negative things I said about the sub output. I wrote to NAD and received a reply in less than 24 hours. I now have all the sub output I need without using the parametric EQ on my SVS. I'm keeping the C 658 with zero regrets.
Good to read. Can you share what NAD replied to you?
 

decryption

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Purchased a C658 recently 2nd hand predominately for its Dirac Live feature.

Initially I had 2x JBL 305Ps and a subwoofer plugged into it and wasn't that impressed with Dirac's adjustments. Even with different target curves the changes were very subtle and I was on the brink of selling it as it was rather expensive for the minuscule EQ it did.

I stumbled across a pair of cheap Kali LP-8V2 and decided to ditch the subwoofer to save some space. Ran Dirac Live again and the difference between corrected and corrected is more pronounced now - tighter bass, clearer vocals, overall certainly more pleasant to me corrected than uncorrected. I have the Dirac target curve set to a Harman Curve at +8db low frequency boost from this website.

It's very possible I didn't know what I was doing and didn't do what was needed to integrate the subwoofer properly with the JBLs! But for what I paid (AU$1000 + AU$150 for the Dirac Live full frequency upgrade), I still feel like it's pretty bloody expensive for what it does considering I'm not using any of the streaming capabilities - I'm just using it as a DAC from my computer and for Dirac.

Still debating if I should sell it and do my own EQ using REW and a calibrated mic, but the mic (A$175), a decent DAC (A$400) and some EQ software for my Mac (A$65/yr for eqMac for example) is still a decent amount of money.
 

Dathzo

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Purchased a C658 recently 2nd hand predominately for its Dirac Live feature.

Initially I had 2x JBL 305Ps and a subwoofer plugged into it and wasn't that impressed with Dirac's adjustments. Even with different target curves the changes were very subtle and I was on the brink of selling it as it was rather expensive for the minuscule EQ it did.

I stumbled across a pair of cheap Kali LP-8V2 and decided to ditch the subwoofer to save some space. Ran Dirac Live again and the difference between corrected and corrected is more pronounced now - tighter bass, clearer vocals, overall certainly more pleasant to me corrected than uncorrected. I have the Dirac target curve set to a Harman Curve at +8db low frequency boost from this website.

It's very possible I didn't know what I was doing and didn't do what was needed to integrate the subwoofer properly with the JBLs! But for what I paid (AU$1000 + AU$150 for the Dirac Live full frequency upgrade), I still feel like it's pretty bloody expensive for what it does considering I'm not using any of the streaming capabilities - I'm just using it as a DAC from my computer and for Dirac. Still debating if I should sell it and do my own EQ using REW and a calibrated mic.
If you only are looking for DL, this is a good alternative: https://www.minidsp.com/products/dirac-series/ddrc-24
 

HarmonicTHD

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No
Thanks for that - not bad price considering it includes a DAC and a calibration mic too. It's only got unbalanced outputs, but the cable run to my speakers is very short (less than 1M) so it probably doesn't matter if it's an unbalanced signal?
it shouldn’t matter.

However if you really want balanced, have a look at the MiniDSP Flex (DAC, Preamp, Balanced Out, Remote and Dirac) for ca 500 USD. It also was very well reviewed here.

With regard to Dirac sub integration. Look around the forum. Some seem to struggle and there are some hints eg by @abdo123 on how to overcome it. ( I personally never used Dirac so I can not judge what is correct).
 
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steadilyfred

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Purchased a C658 recently 2nd hand predominately for its Dirac Live feature.

There aren't many devices like the C 658 in its price range.

✓ Balanced & unbalanced pre-outs
✓ Plenty of digital & analog inputs
✓ Decent MM phono stage
✓ Dual subwoofer output
✓ ESS SABRE ES9028Q2M DAC
✓ BluOS
✓ Dirac Live
✓ Roon Ready
✓ MQA decoding (if needed)
✓ MDC module slots

If you're only using it for one of the above features, then it's probably not the right tool for the job.
 
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decryption

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If you're only using it for one of the above features, then it's probably not the right tool for the job.
At it's RRP in Australia (~$2500), yeah, it would be a waste of money for me only using Dirac & DAC. But 2nd hand it's quite good value as it's the cheapest way to get Dirac Live and a DAC even if I don't use the other features.
 
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MKW

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There aren't many devices like the C 658 in its price range.

✓ Balanced & unbalanced pre-outs
✓ Plenty of digital & analog inputs
✓ Decent MM phono stage
✓ Dual subwoofer output
✓ ESS SABRE ES9028Q2M DAC
✓ BluOS
✓ Dirac Live
✓ Roon Ready
✓ MQA decoding (if needed)
✓ MDC module slots

If you're only using it for one of the above features, then it's probably not the right tool for the job.
I agree. The main thing missing from the C658 is S/PDIF coax output. This output can be found on the similar NAD M12. I have both and said the same about M12 (minus Dirac). These units reduce the gear and cable count significantly and (to my ears) sound very good. When the HDM-2 expansion card is added, they are flat-out amazing with inputs and outputs. Until recently, the M12 was the only unit I could find that offered that level of functionality and connectivity options. The C658 adds Dirac and subtracts coax out, a bunch of configuration options, touch-screen, and a subtle analog smoothness.
 

allgonoshow

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I take back any negative things I said about the sub output. I wrote to NAD and received a reply in less than 24 hours. I now have all the sub output I need without using the parametric EQ on my SVS. I'm keeping the C 658 with zero regrets.
Hi, could you share a link to your contact point/person and let us know what the fix is, I have the same volume issue.

Also, I disabled the sub output in the 658 and plugged the cable into a preout on the 658, as recommended earlier in this thread.
Done this way, sub volume is normal, not muted as it is on the sub output.
My sub is a SVS PB13 Ultra.
It has left and right input rca's and a high level/low level switch for the inputs.
Should I run a second cable to the sub from the second preout?
If I am going to use the setup menus in the sub to manage the bass, should I have the switch set to low or high inputs.
 
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allgonoshow

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Hi, could you share a link to your contact point/person and let us know what the fix is, I have the same volume issue.

Also, I disabled the sub output in the 658 and plugged the cable into a preout on the 658, as recommended earlier in this thread.
Done this way, sub volume is normal, not muted as it is on the sub output.
My sub is a SVS PB13 Ultra.
It has left and right input rca's and a high level/low level switch for the inputs.
Should I run a second cable to the sub from the second preout?
If I am going to use the setup menus in the sub to manage the bass, should I have the switch set to low or high inputs.


This is from Blueos support. The Tone control being enabled seems to be the cause of low bass signal from the C658.
This is not mentioned in the manual or on their web site,

Junal V. (Bluesound)
Jan 25, 2023, 8:39 AM EST
Hello David,

Thank you for contacting the NAD Electronics Support Crew regarding your C 658 with low subwoofer output.


There are a number of different settings and features that may be working together to cause this behavior:

Tone Controls - When Tone Controls is set to ON, the maximum volume output is reduced by 6dB to make headroom for the necessary tone adjustments. This should be set to OFF for maximum volume output.

Dirac - When Dirac is set to ON, the maximum volume output is reduced by 10dB to make headroom for the necessary Dirac Filter adjustments. I do not recommend turning OFF Dirac but it is good to note this information as you may find you need to turn up your amp a bit more when using a Dirac Filter.

Replay-Gain - This is a metadata value hidden in most digital audio files which can adjust the total volume output of your audio. I would recommend that you do not interact with Replay-Gain and leave this setting as Disabled.

If all of these have been checked then please know that your C 658 is likely working correctly and behaving as expected. These are the only settings that should affect any low output noticed. After a detailed investigation, our engineers came to the conclusion that the C 658 sub voltage is correct and operating as expected.

It may help to increase the input gain on the subwoofer itself. I would also recommend looking into how the subwoofer is connected to the C 658.

Most subwoofers have two options for input: Line Level and LFE.

Line Level involves sending a full-range stereo signal from the source(C 658) into your subwoofer. A Line Level input will be fed into your subwoofer's built-in crossover.

LFE involves sending a low-frequency mono signal from the source into your subwoofer. An LFE input will bypass your subwoofer's internal crossover.

We recommend using the LFE input for the best performance.



I hope this feedback is helpful.



Regards,
Junal
The Bluesound Support Crew
 

Tmort

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This is from Blueos support. The Tone control being enabled seems to be the cause of low bass signal from the C658.
This is not mentioned in the manual or on their web site,

Junal V. (Bluesound)
Jan 25, 2023, 8:39 AM EST
Hello David,

Thank you for contacting the NAD Electronics Support Crew regarding your C 658 with low subwoofer output.


There are a number of different settings and features that may be working together to cause this behavior:

Tone Controls - When Tone Controls is set to ON, the maximum volume output is reduced by 6dB to make headroom for the necessary tone adjustments. This should be set to OFF for maximum volume output.

Dirac - When Dirac is set to ON, the maximum volume output is reduced by 10dB to make headroom for the necessary Dirac Filter adjustments. I do not recommend turning OFF Dirac but it is good to note this information as you may find you need to turn up your amp a bit more when using a Dirac Filter.

Replay-Gain - This is a metadata value hidden in most digital audio files which can adjust the total volume output of your audio. I would recommend that you do not interact with Replay-Gain and leave this setting as Disabled.

If all of these have been checked then please know that your C 658 is likely working correctly and behaving as expected. These are the only settings that should affect any low output noticed. After a detailed investigation, our engineers came to the conclusion that the C 658 sub voltage is correct and operating as expected.

It may help to increase the input gain on the subwoofer itself. I would also recommend looking into how the subwoofer is connected to the C 658.

Most subwoofers have two options for input: Line Level and LFE.

Line Level involves sending a full-range stereo signal from the source(C 658) into your subwoofer. A Line Level input will be fed into your subwoofer's built-in crossover.

LFE involves sending a low-frequency mono signal from the source into your subwoofer. An LFE input will bypass your subwoofer's internal crossover.

We recommend using the LFE input for the best performance.



I hope this feedback is helpful.



Regards,
Junal
The Bluesound Support Crew
I chatted with NAD today and got the same canned response Re my sub output being too low….so clearly that’s their stock BS answer. Previously I was using a decent klipsch sub which allowed gain adjustment sufficiently capable of handling the output issue. But now I’ve bought a pricey B&W sub and it’s limited gain control makes the sub pointless. NAD had me send in a status report thru BluOS, I’m hoping they’ll come up with something else! Turning off tone control has zero effect.
 

allgonoshow

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That's weird, turning off the tone controls works on mine. I assume you have the sub turned on in the C658 menu.
I decided to use the preouts to my sub anyway, you still get full range signal to the main speakers and just set the volume and crossover in the sub controls. Sounds awesome, SVS PB13 Ultra and Klipsch RF7ii.
 
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terfenol-D

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I currently run my Apple TV to my TV via HDMI. I then run an optic cable to my C658 for sound. Would there be any benefit to HDM-2 module and running my ATV -> C658 -> TV all via HDMI? I don’t anticipate adding another video source so don’t really need the HDMI switching.
 
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