NAD C658 Streaming DAC Review

[JDRCapeCod]

80:20 rule. Many believe that correction below 500 Hz gets you nearly all the benefits, so why pay more? But for those who believe that a full spectrum correction is worthwhile, the extra expense is optional.

(IMO, it's worth it, $99 is small compared to the overal outlay, YMMV)

Agreed, but it all depends on your room and the issues. I have low ceilings (6'5"-house built in the early 1800's) and hardwood floors and my speakers have fairly wide dispersion. I found Dirac to really clean up some of these issues when using it in my MiniDSP unit. End result was improved clarity, especially at higher volumes, as well as a higher image height.

 

[JDRCapeCod]

Good to know. I think that $99 on top of the premium price this device already requires is a bit much. I would expect for a product in this price bracket that everything would be included, but this might very well be the "new normal". I've seen this on Marantz and Denon also where some feature upgrades (via software) would require further payment :-(

Manufactures want to offer a full feature package to compete with other brands, but they have to keep the price point in line. Companies like Dirac and Audyssey want to sell their software as well. I believe the manufacturers work like this so both can improve business, keep price points in line, and offer the product to those that care since so many features are ignored in mass market devices.

Regarding the pricing on the C 658, I considered it a value. It replaced my existing preamplifier, my Mini DSP DDRC-24 and a BluOS node streamer. It also removed 3 pairs of expensive RCA cables (In and Out of the DDRC-24, and from the node to the preamp) and really cleaned up my systems. Overall I feel that it is a better implementation of what I had, at a lower total price.

 

[JDRCapeCod]

Actually my existing Dirac Live license from my DDRC-24 DOES NOT UNLOCK full frequency for the NAD! It let me log in with the existing info, but when I went to modify the filter it only allowed bass frequencies...it looks like it will be another $100. Well at least I can sell my DDRC-24 and transfer the license to the new owner and not have to keep it for the NAD.

 

[SIY]

Actually my existing Dirac Live license from my DDRC-24 DOES NOT UNLOCK full frequency for the NAD! It let me log in with the existing info, but when I went to modify the filter it only allowed bass frequencies...it looks like it will be another $100. Well at least I can sell my DDRC-24 and transfer the license to the new owner and not have to keep it for the NAD.

I think there’s a way you can unregister the DDRC-24, then register the NAD. @Flak should be able to enlighten us here.

 

[JDRCapeCod]

No worries, I just paid the $100...well worth it and it adds value to my DDRC-24 for the next user. I'll be putting it up for sale soon. Thank you!

 

[JDRCapeCod]

I spent a few hours listening last evening and I really am pleased with the C 658. I went into this thinking that I would have some issues and I knew that the dealer would take the unit back if need be. I have not found an single issue...no popping or anything. I have ran it using both balanced, and single ended outputs into my March Audio P252 with no issue at all. The streaming services work as expected, as does the phono section. The implementation of Dirac Live is wonderful when compared to my MiniDSP. The ability to use the app really made it easy when compared to lugging my laptop into the room and running long USB cables, etc. This has been the best addition to my system in years...very happy with the feature set and sound. The only thing that I have not tested is the sub outputs since I have full range speakers. I hope that this helps anyone that is considering this unit.

 

[JDRCapeCod]

I also noticed a few things on the outer box that leads me to believe there was an issue that is now addressed.

 

[Hephaestus]

I have been several times in contact with NAD support concerning the issues with sub outs. No any kind of time line has been given when the solution will be ready.

They have admitted the existence of the issues though and engineering team is investigating it.

Frustrating. It looks that I might carry the unit back to the dealer.

 

[Soundstage]

Seems like Minidsp SHD is better.

 

[JDRCapeCod]

I have been several times in contact with NAD support concerning the issues with sub outs. No any kind of time line has been given when the solution will be ready.

They have admitted the existence of the issues though and engineering team is investigating it.

Frustrating. It looks that I might carry the unit back to the dealer.

If I had a defective unit and that was their solution I would get it back to them for a return. That is not acceptable in my opinion.

 

[JDRCapeCod]

Seems like Minidsp SHD is better.

I would have bought the MiniDSP if the feature set worked for me. Their lack of being control system friendly was a dealbreaker for my solution. But agreed, really nice product and great pricing.

 

[Brian6751]

Seems like Minidsp SHD

I have been several times in contact with NAD support concerning the issues with sub outs. No any kind of time line has been given when the solution will be ready.

They have admitted the existence of the issues though and engineering team is investigating it.

Frustrating. It looks that I might carry the unit back to the dealer.

My sub pre outs work fine. I would swap it out.

 

[Brian6751]

Seems like Minidsp SHD is better.

You're making an assumption based only on Amir's measurements. In real use, and after running Dirac, this is a great product. I'll be swapping the SHD back in soon and if I cannot hear a big difference, the C658 is staying.

 

[Soundstage]

I would have bought the MiniDSP if the feature set worked for me. Their lack of being control system friendly was a dealbreaker for my solution. But agreed, really nice product and great pricing.

Thanks for the feedback. What do you mean by being not control system friendly? What kind of feature is missing?

 

[JDRCapeCod]

Thanks for the feedback. What do you mean by being not control system friendly? What kind of feature is missing?

I use a control system for automation of my entire house, including AV. It allows for a seamless experience to run my system (kind of like an app, but everything is in it instead of just a single device, and devices can speak to one another without input from the user). To work well with a control system you typically would want to have IP control over it, where you can send specific commands to a device to do a task (turn up volume, go to input 3, turn Dirac on/off, etc), and be able to query a device and ask it a question, and have the device respond to it (example: if listening to SiriusXM and the word Bieber is in the artist field of the metadata, skip to the next song). The MiniDSP products are controlled via IR, which is OK, but it is one way, meaning I can just send a command and not get a response...like asking a teenage son a question. Worse yet, the IR commands are very limited, for example instead of having a command for power on and power off, it would just have a power on/off toggle. Another example is having a source up and down button, instead of having codes for direct sources. The UI experience is something that is an afterthought on many of the less popular brands. It's expensive to have engineers create code libraries and employ processing for control. NAD does an excellent job of it. I get full two way feedback, including album art on my remote control (not an app) since I have two way control over it. I am passionate about sound, but I also love technology in general. I work for Universal Remote Control (the people that created it) and we have a control system called Total Control that I need to "beat up" for work and push to the limits. The C 658 is awesome for control! Probably a longer answer than you wanted, but not sure how else to explain it. I have attached a image of what my table top remote looks like when listening to Tidal from the C 658. I just can't get this level of integration with the MiniDSP without using a computer or a phone.

 

[T.J. Turner]

OK, after conducting multiple blind AB tests using my wife's help, I can conclude that there is in fact something terribly wring with ALL external digital inputs! I've compared the same track played internally via Bluos library playback and then played externally via optical input from my PC using Foobar2000 WASPI. The differences are HUGE! The external digital playback sounds lifeless compared to the internal network playback... Very disappointed with NAD. The biggest question is whether this is a hardware bug or just a firmware bug? I've contacted NAD support, but I doubt if they'll be any help...

Can anyone else also do a similar test?

Thanks

First, in another application, I discovered that TOSlink optical connections have a good potential for sounding worse than digital Coax connections, supposedly because of the differences in quality between the sending a and receiving devices. The TOSlink optical output from my PC sounds exactly like you described, dull and lifeless. I just did't realize it until I started messing with digital coax connections. I read a few places that said its because integrated sound cards on a PC are added as an after thought, and are poorly designed and implemented, susceptible to clock jitter from all the electrical noise flowing through the mainboard and power supply. The design of the digital coax may be more immune to these issues.

I have my Audiolab 8300CD connected to my NAD C658 by digital cox, and I hear no different between this setup and just playing the CD using the 8300CD internal DAC.

When you said something was "wrong with ALL external digital inputs" did you really test the Coax input?

 

[JDRCapeCod]

First, in another application, I discovered that TOSlink optical connections have a good potential for sounding worse than digital Coax connections, supposedly because of the differences in quality between the sending a and receiving devices. The TOSlink optical output from my PC sounds exactly like you described, dull and lifeless. I just did't realize it until I started messing with digital coax connections. I read a few places that said its because integrated sound cards on a PC are added as an after thought, and are poorly designed and implemented, susceptible to clock jitter from all the electrical noise flowing through the mainboard and power supply. The design of the digital coax may be more immune to these issues.

I have my Audiolab 8300CD connected to my NAD C658 by digital cox, and I hear no different between this setup and just playing the CD using the 8300CD internal DAC.

When you said something was "wrong with ALL external digital inputs" did you really test the Coax input?

I am using the optical digital input with no issue in sound. I was very reluctant to purchase the C 658 based on the issues I see in this forum and I constantly have it under a microscope just waiting for it to fail. I do believe that people did (and still do) have some issues with this piece, but I have to say it have been the best addition to my system (along with a March Audio amp). It works as expected and my system has never sounded better. I do think that having Dirac integrated vs. an outside box (DDRC-24) is a better solution. I always struggled with having my DDRC-24 looped through an external processing loop, or inserting it between the amp and preamp. Having it integrated reduced a lot of cables and streamlines the experience. If I had to replace this unit, I am not sure what I would get...maybe the Anthem piece? I'm hoping that it continues to deliver.

 

[whitfc]

How does the DAC of the Bluesound node 2i compare to the dac on the NAD C658?

 

[T.J. Turner]

How does the DAC of the Bluesound node 2i compare to the dac on the NAD C658?

I'm confused about the DAC. It's advertised with a ESS Sabre DAC, but this reviewer Hans Beekhuyzen said that when he opened it, he only saw 2 BurrBrown DACs.
Perhaps someone could provide some additional confirmation?

 

[JanZak]

Please find below an ansnwer from Nad support

"Hello Jan,

Thank you for contacting the NAD Electronics Support Center. I sincerely apologize for the delay in getting back to you as we have experienced a higher volume of requests due to COVID-19 isolation.

With regards to the ESS DAC in the C658, it has the ES9028 ESS DAC.

We hope this helps! If you have any further questions or concerns, please feel free to get in touch.

Best Regards,

Bob Moran
NAD Support Specialist"