NAD C375BEE to drive Revel F208

[Old_School_Brad]

Ha, this is something new I’m learning. I thought it was because, at some point, the amp could no longer produce enough power to drive the speakers as the resistance dropped. But you said that the lower the resistance, the easier it is for the amp, which makes sense to me. But now, with the current coming into play, I’m even more confused.

I'll try with a commonly used analogy that might just work in this example.

If impedance decreases, more current will flow -assuming the power source can handle it. Otherwise, the voltage may drop.
Look at voltage like water pressure in a hose, while current represents the flow of water.

If you start with a pressure of 10 (arbitrary) and make a small hole in the hose with a nail, a small stream of water escapes, but the pressure remains close to 10 because the source can keep up. However, if you cut off the end of the hose, a large amount of water rushes out. If the pump has a limited capacity, it won’t be able to maintain the pressure, which may drop to 2. Similarly, in an electrical circuit, if impedance drops too low, the power supply might struggle to provide enough current, leading to a voltage drop.
When this happens, you risk distortion or clipping.

 

[DanielT]

Thanks for your reading recommendations. I now understand that my amp is powerful enough to drive the speakers, and I have no plans to spend money on a new one. But still, I am confused about how speakers and amps work together.

The thread about room acoustics reminded me of a friend from years ago. I had an entertainment room about 13' x 15', with the long wall completely covered with books from floor to ceiling. I also had racks of CD shelves and other stuff. It looked pretty cool. I designed the space that way because I love books and music, and that was the only way to store them in the house. I had a vague sense that it was great for music listening, but it wasn’t something I seriously thought about.

A friend once visited me and loved the sound of my system. I was running a NAD C352 driving a pair of B&W 603 S2. He was so impressed that he asked me to help him buy a similar setup. Similar, but not identical. He ended up getting a NAD C372 with 150W per channel and a newer pair of B&W speakers. But when I visited his place, he was puzzled—the sound just wasn’t great. Eventually, he moved house and sold the gear.

I wondered what made the difference between his system and mine. Was it the speakers? The amp? Something else? I suspected the speakers or maybe the room, but I was never sure.

Recently, I moved to a new city, and my current listening room has no books or CD shelves—it’s nearly empty, and the shape isn’t ideal. I don’t even need to say it, but the sound is awful. And just like that, it became crystal clear to me what truly made the difference between my setup and my friend’s: the room mattered the most.

Thankfully, my wife is moderately supportive—she just said I’m crazy for moving speakers around, reorganizing the furniture, and is completely against having a thick rug, as she thinks she might be allergic to one.

These compromises. It is undeniably nice to have a peaceful relationship so it is at the top of most people's priority list. Even I, as a single, would not want to turn my combined living room, listening room into a recording studio in the form of a lot of diffusers and absorbers. Fortunately, you can get a long way with normally furnished rooms. Not under furnished rooms perhaps. On the other hand, too much diffusers and absorbers can create a too dry and boring sound. The right amount, according to personal taste and opinion, of reverb should be the case. The extremes are this, too much and too little reverb:

Speaking of carpets. When does it become too much? A trip down memory lane:

And speaking of memories, one of my favorite threads here on ASR. Let yourself be amazed and smile at what it was like back in the days:

Vintage Audio Advertising

Must say, the internet can sometimes be wonderful. By pure chance I landed on a discussion about vintage Empire speakers and that led me to other vintage discussions, and eventually to vintage audio advertising. Some of the ads are downright comical, at least I thought so. Lots of posing...

audiosciencereview.com

 

[Nothingness]

1. Speaker wattage ratings are just about meaningless. The maximum values they list are often well more than enough to fry the speakers. It's complicated and not easy at all to assign simple numbers for min or max power, but marketing departments like simple numbers, so that's what people get. It depends on the content being played (the frequency, the duration). The minimum power values, well, I'm not sure where they come up with those. 1 watt is enough to play your speakers at moderately loud levels.

2. That NAD amp is quite powerful and can probably play your speakers at ear-bleeding levels without too much problem. It's probably powerful enough to blow your speakers with certain musical content played really loud.

Conclusion: That amp is totally fine for normal use. If you turn it up so loud that you hear harshness or distortion, turn it down quickly before you blow something. Otherwise, enjoy the combination and don't worry about the power ratings.

Hi, it's me again with another novice question. From the answers you've provided, I understand that my NAD C375BEE (150 WPC) can easily drive the F208. Now I have another dilemma. A dealer offers me a lightly used Revel Salon 2 at a very attractive price (under $10K) with one year of warranty. I can afford it and I have until tomorrow to answer him.

Now comes a similar question—while the NAD C375BEE is 150 WPC, I’ve heard that the Salon 2 is a power-hungry beast (600W). Can my amp drive the Salon 2?

I know someone might ask what I’m looking for in an upgrade. Honestly, I don’t know—I guess the audiophile upgrade bug is biting me.

The NAD C375BEE specs:

I'll try with a commonly used analogy that might just work in this example.

If impedance decreases, more current will flow -assuming the power source can handle it. Otherwise, the voltage may drop.
Look at voltage like water pressure in a hose, while current represents the flow of water.

If you start with a pressure of 10 (arbitrary) and make a small hole in the hose with a nail, a small stream of water escapes, but the pressure remains close to 10 because the source can keep up. However, if you cut off the end of the hose, a large amount of water rushes out. If the pump has a limited capacity, it won’t be able to maintain the pressure, which may drop to 2. Similarly, in an electrical circuit, if impedance drops too low, the power supply might struggle to provide enough current, leading to a voltage drop.
When this happens, you risk distortion or clipping.

I like your water hose anology. Thank you.

 

[Beave]

It seems like I've read others say that the Salon 2s need a lot of power, but it doesn't look like an especially demanding load to me:

https://www.stereophile.com/content/revel-ultima-salon2-loudspeaker-measurements

Estimated sensitivity: 86dB/2.83v/1m

Impedance:

So it would all depend on your listening habits and room size. In a large room at very high volume, it may be testing the limits of your NAD.

At more modest levels, your NAD should be fine, I would think.

You might get more responses from others more familiar with the Salon 2 than I am.

 

[JeremyFife]

Hi, it's me again with another novice question. From the answers you've provided, I understand that my NAD C375BEE (150 WPC) can easily drive the F208. Now I have another dilemma. A dealer offers me a lightly used Revel Salon 2 at a very attractive price (under $10K) with one year of warranty. I can afford it and I have until tomorrow to answer him.

Now comes a similar question—while the NAD C375BEE is 150 WPC, I’ve heard that the Salon 2 is a power-hungry beast (600W). Can my amp drive the Salon 2?

I know someone might ask what I’m looking for in an upgrade. Honestly, I don’t know—I guess the audiophile upgrade bug is biting me.

The NAD C375BEE specs:

View attachment 436880



I like your water hose anology. Thank you.

Yes, the NAD will be OK ... but take a moment ... you are about to drop 10k on speakers ... just another 1 or 2k will get you the sort of amplification (Hypex ncx500, Purifi, Yamaha/Rotel) where you won't have any questions about anything, ever.

This hardly seems like the time to 'make do'.

However, yes, the NAD will be OK

 

[DanielT]

Speaking of Revel Salon 2 - with what seems to be 86 dB sensitivity speakers- and appropriate matched level of amp power. Powering them up with NAD C375BEE which has 150 WPC, no problem. BUT, just to put it into perspective.Another speaker of around 86 dB sensitivity together with an amplifier that is more than half a century old and has only a tenth of the power compared to NAD C375BEE, that is, a 15 watt Williamson tube amplifier how can it sound? Page 4,#68:

Post #66 brings up speaker sensitivity and amp power. A hi-fi speaker with 90dB/W/m sensitivity can ball-park provide an 80dB average listening SPL at 3 meters with 12dB peak-to-average recorded material without exceeding a 15W power capability where waveform clipping starts. For comparison, a very loud cinema type experience may operate up to 85dB average SPL with up to 20dB peak-to-average recorded material.

We had a recent talk/demonstration of Williamson amps to an Audio Club in a moderate size room with 50 or so people, and used a pair of Leak Sandwich speakers (vintage with circa 86dB sensitivity, but quite modern compared to the amps being demonstrated). The speakers sounded great with a range of familiar CD music - the amps were as expected 'neutral' and indistinguishable from each other.

I've been able to restore 3 vintage Williamson's of original WW design, and a few other variants, and all can be made unconditionally stable at LF and HF with some insight and test tools, so I see no good reason to adjust the design per se to 'improve it'. Quite a few over on Audiokarma are also restoring or remaking commercial Heathkit variants, and similarly avoiding original concerns with stability, and have been able to use modern stock output transformers and valves.


(I don't know if that's an "original" Williamson tube amplifier in the picture)

Does anyone have a Williamson tube amplifier?

specs never really explain how an amp sounds But basic measurements do. 100%. You can use 6L6 (bright sound) 5881 Dark sound) KT66..nice and balanced. Goldilocks nods. Serious question: did you use any ears-only controls to determine this remarkable result? IME, the Williamson amp has no...

audiosciencereview.com

Edit:
A small caveat. A listening session with tube dude loving enthusiasts who from the beginning most certainly believe that a low powered amp can drive a pair of 86 dB sensitive speakers without any problems will then think that is the case. They probably convinced each other that this was the case. A lot of psychology in it all. Not easy to be completely objective in such situations. That said. That little old Williamson tube amplifier might have handled the task, the challenge with flying colors. So it could be.
(The most important thing at these types of events is to have fun and socialize, not to prove anything.)

 

[Old_School_Brad]

Hi, it's me again with another novice question. From the answers you've provided, I understand that my NAD C375BEE (150 WPC) can easily drive the F208. Now I have another dilemma. A dealer offers me a lightly used Revel Salon 2 at a very attractive price (under $10K) with one year of warranty. I can afford it and I have until tomorrow to answer him.

Now comes a similar question—while the NAD C375BEE is 150 WPC, I’ve heard that the Salon 2 is a power-hungry beast (600W). Can my amp drive the Salon 2?

I know someone might ask what I’m looking for in an upgrade. Honestly, I don’t know—I guess the audiophile upgrade bug is biting me.

The NAD C375BEE specs:

View attachment 436880



I like your water hose anology. Thank you.

What's your preferred music genre, typical listening volume, and the distance between you and the speakers?

 

[Nothingness]

What's your preferred music genre, typical listening volume, and the distance between you and the speakers?

I mostly listen to classic rock and blues rock from the ’70s to ’90s, and a bit of folk. My wife, on the other hand, loves Blackpink and other pop bands.

I sit about 8-9' from the speakers. I’ve rearranged the sofa so there’s no back wall directly behind me. My current room is far from perfect - it’s a living room connected to a dining area and kitchen, forming a complex L shape.

I’m not sure how to translate my listening volume into dB, but I typically keep my amp’s volume knob between 9 and 10 o’clock at most.

 

[Old_School_Brad]

I mostly listen to classic rock and blues rock from the ’70s to ’90s, and a bit of folk. My wife, on the other hand, loves Blackpink and other pop bands.

I sit about 8-9' from the speakers. I’ve rearranged the sofa so there’s no back wall directly behind me. My current room is far from perfect - it’s a living room connected to a dining area and kitchen, forming a complex L shape.

I’m not sure how to translate my listening volume into dB, but I typically keep my amp’s volume knob between 9 and 10 o’clock at most.

Alright. I think that's enough information to say that your C375BEE should provide plenty of power for your Salon 2s. So keep that and get those lovely speakers.

 

[Nothingness]

Alright. I think that's enough information to say that your C375BEE should provide plenty of power for your Salon 2s. So keep that and get those lovely speakers.

So it seems the general idea is that I can try my NAD C375BEE with the Salon 2s. Thank you to everyone who helped me out. I’ll tell the dealer my counteroffer price and see what he says. Then, I’ll have to tell my wife the new speakers cost just a bit over $3K or she’ll be mad.

Yes, the NAD will be OK ... but take a moment ... you are about to drop 10k on speakers ... just another 1 or 2k will get you the sort of amplification (Hypex ncx500, Purifi, Yamaha/Rotel) where you won't have any questions about anything, ever.

This hardly seems like the time to 'make do'.

However, yes, the NAD will be OK

I really want these to be my endgame speakers. ASR has been super helpful—thank goodness there’s a website focused on data instead of word salad. I’ve learned a lot here. But this audiophile thing is so time consuming. I really don’t want to spend more time reading about gear. If my NAD can drive the Salons for my music and listening habits, then that’s it.

 

[Old_School_Brad]

So it seems the general idea is that I can try my NAD C375BEE with the Salon 2s. Thank you to everyone who helped me out. I’ll tell the dealer my counteroffer price and see what he says. Then, I’ll have to tell my wife the new speakers cost just a bit over $3K or she’ll be mad.

I really want these to be my endgame speakers. ASR has been super helpful—thank goodness there’s a website focused on data instead of word salad. I’ve learned a lot here. But this audiophile thing is so time consuming. I really don’t want to spend more time reading about gear. If my NAD can drive the Salons for my music and listening habits, then that’s it.

Absolutely.
It's a classic, well-built high current amplifier with solid power reserves. While 150 W continuous may not sound like a lot, the real strength lies in its dynamic power. Based on the phase and impedance trace of the speaker, the amplifier can deliver over 400 W of peak power to the bass drivers of your Salon 2s if needed.

 

[Nothingness]

Hi, I wanted to share that I’ve decided to purchase the Salon 2s. The story behind this pair is that the dealer had a previous owner who upgraded to something supposedly more expensive. In the second leg of the deal, they bought the speakers back-presumably at a huge discount. Perhaps they were so happy with the deal's first leg that they were eager to move the lightly used Salons quickly rather than keep them in their inventory. You wouldn’t believe the ridiculous price I got them for.

These will be the most expensive speakers I’ve ever purchased though. Even more remarkable is that I bought them without ever auditioning them - the speakers were more than a thousand miles away. I spent a lot of time researching the Salon 2s, given my limited grasp of physics. Honestly, the research was so time-consuming that I just wanted to wrap it up and refocus on my profession. The majority of reviews and comments I found for the Salons were overwhelmingly positive, and I’d say 90% of my decision was influenced by what I learned here on ASR-even though Amir hasn’t reviewed the Salon 2s yet. This is another example of how this forum can significantly influence consumer behavior.

The speakers are in the hands of a logistics company, with an ETA of Monday. The dealer will come over to install them-which they should, because there’s no way I can handle them on my own. I’m both excited and nervous.

I’ve heard horror stories about shipping mishaps. While I’d get my money back in case of damage, that’s not what I want-I want my Salon 2s after all the time I spent researching. I’ve also read from ASR that someone bought KEF Blades and wasn’t particularly impressed, so there’s always that possibility with the Salon 2s too. And I even read also here about a miswired pair that had to be sent back to Harman.

I just hope they impress me as much as they have other Salon 2 owners in this forum. Wish me luck!

 

[pjug]

Hi, I wanted to share that I’ve decided to purchase the Salon 2s. The story behind this pair is that the dealer had a previous owner who upgraded to something supposedly more expensive. In the second leg of the deal, they bought the speakers back-presumably at a huge discount. Perhaps they were so happy with the deal's first leg that they were eager to move the lightly used Salons quickly rather than keep them in their inventory. You wouldn’t believe the ridiculous price I got them for.

These will be the most expensive speakers I’ve ever purchased though. Even more remarkable is that I bought them without ever auditioning them - the dealer is more than a thousand miles away. I spent a lot of time researching the Salon 2s, given my limited grasp of physics. Honestly, the research was so time-consuming that I just wanted to wrap it up and refocus on my profession. The majority of reviews and comments I found for the Salons were overwhelmingly positive, and I’d say 90% of my decision was influenced by what I learned here on ASR-even though Amir hasn’t reviewed the Salon 2s yet. This is another example of how this forum can significantly influence consumer behavior.

The speakers are in the hands of a logistics company, with an ETA of Monday. The dealer will come over to install them-which they should, because there’s no way I can handle them on my own. I’m both excited and nervous.

I’ve heard horror stories about shipping mishaps. While I’d get my money back in case of damage, that’s not what I want-I want my Salon 2s after all the time I spent researching. I’ve also read from ASR that someone bought KEF Blades and wasn’t particularly impressed, so there’s always that possibility with the Salon 2s too. And I even read also here about a miswired pair that had to be sent back to Harman.

I just hope they impress me as much as they have other Salon 2 owners in this forum. Wish me luck!

Good for you! I can't imagine you won't like them if you like wide dispersion. But now maybe you do want to upgrade from the C375BEE? Not that the amp is not capable, just what I would do because I wouldn't be able to stop myself from going for Accuphase or something else with looks to match, if I had these speakers.

 

[Nothingness]

Good for you! I can't imagine you won't like them if you like wide dispersion. But now maybe you do want to upgrade from the C375BEE? Not that the amp is not capable, just what I would do because I wouldn't be able to stop myself from going for Accuphase or something else with looks to match, if I had these speakers.

Thank you. Well, I’ll see how my NAD drives them first. If it works, I don’t see any reason to upgrade gear that’s already doing the job, and I love my NAD very much. The only exception would be if I move into a larger house or apartment in the future, where I might need to turn the volume knob up a bit louder, requiring more power.

 

[Old_School_Brad]

I see their used price is just under $7,000. Did you manage to beat the market?

Enjoy your listening! Hope everything goes smoothly with the setup. If you have hard floors, try placing a few sheets of printer paper under their feet to easily adjust the toe-in.

 

[Nothingness]

Oops, then no. The previous owner had them for just eight or ten months, and I have a one-year warranty from the dealer. They’re an authorized Harman dealer, so that might add some credibility.

And thanks for the printer-paper suggestion. I will do that.

 

[Old_School_Brad]

Oops, then no. The previous owner had them for just eight to ten months, and I have a one-year warranty from the dealer. They’re an authorized Harman dealer, so that might add some credibility.

They aren't very old and the warranty is also valuable. Can you return them if, unexpectedly, you end up not liking them?

 

[Nothingness]

They aren't very old and the warranty is also valuable. Can you return them if, unexpectedly, you end up not liking them?

No, I can't. So, it's huge risk I am taking.

That said, I auditioned a used pair of KEF R7 Metas the other day (thanks to the "Passive Speakers" thread by sweetchaos), and I really liked them. I found their bass to be relatively deep and punchy. I've heard even better things about the Salons' bass and their wider dispersion, so I think there's a good chance I'll like them even more.

 

[Old_School_Brad]

No, I can't. So, it's huge risk I am taking.

I doubt the scenario is likely to happen. Keep us posted on how everything turns out.

 

[Nothingness]

I doubt the scenario is likely to happen. Keep us posted on how everything turns out.

Thanks for your kind words. I will. Have a great Sunday.