Nad c298 volume

[Jim586music]

Hi everyone.
First time posting so go easy.
I have a conundrum not sure if it’s a fault.
Currently I have a Tom Evans Vibe pre amp going into a Nad C298 power amp. Speakers are Quadral Galans.
The sound I’m getting is good, however the volume and dynamics are not what I expected considering the power of the Nad 298. I can turn the volume knob fully on. Yes it’s loud, but still bearable - Sort of party level.
The specs of the Quadrals are 85db sens, 4ohm load. Probably not the easiest speaker to drive but I was under the impression that the Nad could drive almost anything?
The source is a Node2i reclocked into a Denefrips Pontus 11 dac.
my other source is a phono stage (using MC) which is louder than the dac. I’m fairly sure both are outputting around 2.2 volts.
The gain on the Nad is on fixed, so maximum.
I’ve had numerous amps running these speakers and none have acted in this way.

Any ideas of what it could be?

Thanks in advance.

 

[MaxwellsEq]

I’m fairly sure both are outputting around 2.2 volts.

Best to check this with a voltmeter. Bear in mind that the peak output from a phono amplifier is dependent on the peak from the cartridge which can vary widely.

Any ideas of what it could be?

Assuming the devices are creating approximately 2V at peak, your amplifier may not have enough gain. That tends to be a common reason why powerful amplifiers are quieter than less powerful amplifiers which have higher gain.

 

[Jim586music]

Best to check this with a voltmeter. Bear in mind that the peak output from a phono amplifier is dependent on the peak from the cartridge which can vary widely.

Assuming the devices are creating approximately 2V at peak, your amplifier may not have enough gain. That tends to be a common reason why powerful amplifiers are quieter than less powerful amplifiers which have higher gain.

Hello. Thanks for the response. I believe the gain of the Nad is 29db.
Regarding the output voltages. I’ve used both sources in other amp configurations and haven’t encountered the issue.
I suppose I’m answering some of my own questions.
What could be the incompatibility between the pre amp, power amp and speakers?

 

[Chagall]

Nad C298

Stereo Mode input sensitivity (for 185 W in 8 ohms)
- Fixed Gain mode: 1.43 V
Stereo Mode Gain
- Fixed Gain mode: 28.6 dB

So 2V should be enough to reach full power.

Does Node have any volume control? Is there any difference if you connect Node directly to the preamp?

 

[LTig]

What could be the incompatibility between the pre amp, power amp and speakers?

The preamp must have enough gain to amplify the quietest source (like an old FM tuner) to the level required by the power amp to reach its maximum power. And then at least 10 to 15 dB more gain for quiet recordings.

 

[Jim586music]

Nad C298

Stereo Mode input sensitivity (for 185 W in 8 ohms)
- Fixed Gain mode: 1.43 V
Stereo Mode Gain
- Fixed Gain mode: 28.6 dB

So 2V should be enough to reach full power.

Does Node have any volume control? Is there any difference if you connect Node directly to the preamp?

Hiya,
I think it’s something to do with the input sensitivity. I wonder if I should test the dac somehow. I have an old CD player so I can try that.
The Node does have a volume but it’s turned up to the maximum.

I had an integrated amp of 75w and couldn’t get it passed the 12o’clock position with the same sources.

Could the input sensitivity be out in the Nad?

 

[Kal Rubinson]

The C298 was more than sufficient power and gain for these small speakers. Unfortunately, there are no useful measurements or specs for the speakers.

 

[Jim586music]

Nad C298

Stereo Mode input sensitivity (for 185 W in 8 ohms)
- Fixed Gain mode: 1.43 V
Stereo Mode Gain
- Fixed Gain mode: 28.6 dB

So 2V should be enough to reach full power.

Does Node have any volume control? Is there any difference if you connect Node directly to the preamp?

The C298 was more than sufficient power and gain for these small speakers. Unfortunately, there are no useful measurements or specs for the speakers.

Thanks.
There’s not a lot of info on them but they sounded fabulous with a Belles aria I had.
I’ve spoken to an electrical genius and he has said the 4ohm load isnt helping and causes distortion in the power amp re. Feedback. Way above my head.

 

[Mnyb]

Any volume control in the node ? do you use replay gain or some kind off volume leveling from a streaming service ?

Any EQ in use ? 100% flat our from the DAC should drive your amp into clipping spec says 2.0/4.0 volts . Your DAC also has balanced out ?

But if it actually goes as high as you ever want to listen there is no problem . Nb dynamics are the same regardless ..

But if your have record with exceptionally low levels such as some classical records ? maybe its time for a preamp if gain is lacking

 

[fcracer]

It’s probably something in your gain setup.

However one thing I’ve noticed with Purifi or HypeX based amplifiers is that they’re so powerful and low distortion that music sounds less fatiguing than a low powered amplifier.

I assume the lower powered amps get into mild clipping which makes them sound “loud” and fatiguing to listen to. I can go very loud with Purifi and it doesn’t have that harshness to it.

 

[Jim586music]

It’s been suggested to look for speakers with a good impedance phase plot. Does anyone have any examples?
It’s a very confusing world now.
Why aren’t many more speakers more efficient with the aforementioned impedance phase plots advertised? The. High powered amplification wouldn’t be necessary would it?
That’s probably a separate question but here we go.

 

[Jim586music]

Any volume control in the node ? do you use replay gain or some kind off volume leveling from a streaming service ?

Any EQ in use ? 100% flat our from the DAC should drive your amp into clipping spec says 2.0/4.0 volts . Your DAC also has balanced out ?

But if it actually goes as high as you ever want to listen there is no problem . Nb dynamics are the same regardless ..

But if your have record with exceptionally low levels such as some classical records ? maybe its time for a preamp if gain is lacking

Hiya.
No eq and I do use a pre amp. Tom Evans The Vibe.

 

[Chagall]

Hiya,
I think it’s something to do with the input sensitivity. I wonder if I should test the dac somehow. I have an old CD player so I can try that.
The Node does have a volume but it’s turned up to the maximum.

I would test each component and test other sources (CD player you mentioned), but be VERY CAREFUL IF CONNECTING ANYTHING DIRECTLY TO THE NAD, you NEED TO REDUCE THE VOLUME!!

I had an integrated amp of 75w and couldn’t get it passed the 12o’clock position with the same sources.

But then the signal didn't go through the Vibe pre-amp...thinking the pre-amp is the problem.

 

[Mnyb]

1. Try running the node directly and use it's volume to control the amp

2. try using the nodes volume trough it's digital output and use the DAC directly to the amp

 

[Jim586music]

1. Try running the node directly and use it's volume to control the amp

2. try using the nodes volume trough it's digital output and use the DAC directly to the amp

Thanks. I’ll try that.

 

[Kal Rubinson]

I’ve spoken to an electrical genius and he has said the 4ohm load isnt helping and causes distortion in the power amp re. Feedback.

Unlikely.

1. Try running the node directly and use it's volume to control the amp

2. try using the nodes volume trough it's digital output and use the DAC directly to the amp

Agreed.

 

[pjug]

Nad C298

Stereo Mode input sensitivity (for 185 W in 8 ohms)
- Fixed Gain mode: 1.43 V
Stereo Mode Gain
- Fixed Gain mode: 28.6 dB

So 2V should be enough to reach full power.

Does Node have any volume control? Is there any difference if you connect Node directly to the preamp?

Yes but could it have been put into variable mode? Probably OP checked this but I will ask anyway since I overlook the obvious stuff all the time myself.

 

[Leeken]

Yes but could it have been put into variable mode? Probably OP checked this but I will ask anyway since I overlook the obvious stuff all the time myself.

That’s the obvious thing to me,the amp is in variable gain,at the low end of the dial.
I’m running the same amp into Atc scm40s which are around 81db for 1w ,I can get concert like volume if I want to .

 

[Chagall]

Nah, OP said
The gain on the Nad is on fixed, so maximum.

 

[Jim586music]

Hello everyone.
Many thanks for your thoughts and input.
I had a play and discovered the issue.
The problem was the Node 2i.
My pre doesn’t have a remote control so I had turned the volume in the Node to variable. I didn’t think this would drop the level by much. It’s huge!
I turned the volume to fixed and boom.

It’s a shame that the software drops the volume so much. I assumed that full volume in variable mode would be the same as fixed mode. Apparently not.

Thanks again.