NAD C298 Stereo Amplifier Review

[ahofer]

This is naive.
If you don't take the time to inspect the build, the quality of work and the features implemented before deciding to make the purchase you may regret it later. How much heat does the unit generate? How warm does it get after 2 hours of moderate to heavy use. What does it weigh? Will its design fit your use/space? How many watts does it use while idle and at normal background listening levels? How intuitive is the functional design of the unit? Does it make a pop sound in your speakers when turned on? Is the front panel LED distractingly bright? Will it sound any different than equipment you already own?

Making buying decisions solely on measurements is lazy and can easily leave important issues uncovered until after the sale. Measurements are a great starting point but don't let them fool you into believing there are no other considerations.

I’ve never not known the dimensions before buying. That tends to be in the specs.

Some fair points. A lot of what you are citing is very measurable (but isn’t often reviewed or advertised). And quality is generally not tested in consumer audio ecosystem. But these things are all possible to measure and test, and Amir often comments on heat, etc.

My point is that the full suite of measurements will tell you everything you need to know about a non-transducer component’s transparency in your system.

(update: I bolded the sentence above to point out the weird pedantry of several following posts)

 

[Old_School_Brad]

For electronics? Excellent. You can buy on a complete set of measurements.
For speakers? Pretty good. You can triage things that don’t measure well, and try out the remainder (plus any unconventional designs like bi/multipolar, that you are curious about.

On the one hand it’s sort of no fun when so much mystery (or woo-woo) is removed, on the other hand it’s a relief to our time and wallets.

I prefer a scientific approach over embracing mystery, as I value explanations for what I don’t understand. Audio is a well-studied field with little mystery left for those who explore it deeply enough. Subjective experiences, like preferences or perceived nuances in audio, often create an illusion of mystery, influenced by biases or limited understanding of the science. But it is just an illusion and not real mystery.

 

[amper42]

I’ve never not known the dimensions before buying. That tends to be in the specs.

Some fair points. A lot of what you are citing is very measurable (but isn’t often reviewed or advertised). And quality is generally not tested in consumer audio ecosystem. But these things are all possible to measure and test, and Amir often comments on heat, etc.

My point is that the full suite of measurements will tell you everything you need to know about a non-transducer component’s transparency in your system.

If you rely totally on measurements and don't do your own homework you miss out on some of the best GEMS in audio.

Here's one example:
Look at the RME ADI-2 DAC FS in "SINAD" comparison charts. Based on those measurements an uninformed reader may conclude the "Topping D70 Pro" offers superior results to the RME ADI-2 DAC FS? The ADI-2 review doesn't go into features except to mention, "There is a built-in parametric EQ which can help you optimize your room or headphones. And on and on."


But if you do your homework you soon discover the ADI-2 DAC FS "Loudness" feature. The new ADI-2 Remote app puts it miles ahead of any other DAC on the entire list. You might think, How can that be? The reality is no other DAC with or without EQ offers the amazing functionality of the ADI-2 DAC. Not my MiniDSP Flex and certainly NOT any Topping DAC.

ADI-2 DAC FS Loudness Feature
Imagine being able to adjust the bass thump just the way you like it in real time while listening to your favorite music. Or having the ability to match the timbre of two distinctly different speakers? Or adjust a midrange that sounds somewhat distant to be clear and upfront - while never adding distortion? No other DAC offers a loudness control with customizable settings like the ADI-2. Many audio enthusiasts spend years looking for that special amp/DAC combo that offers them just the right sound, not knowing the ADI-2 can do it in nothing flat and save them thousands plus their time. Not only that but if their taste changes it's easy to alter the settings again or instantly compare to flat.

ADI-2 Remote
If you have used any Topping products you know how poor the dime store remote is that comes with even their $500+ units. Their remote range is limited and requires laser focus. You get a nice "SINAD" measurement but crappy remote usability. And if you bought RME ADI-2 you soon realize they continually upgrade your DAC functionality with free software updates while Topping is discontinuing your purchase as fast as possible, churning out other products that still don't match ADI-2 functionality.

What does a decent remote look like?

It fits in your hand comfortably and allows easy access to controls with at least a 45 degree angle range.
It easily increases volume or changes the source. And it has the option to turn EQ or the Loudness effect on/off at the touch of a button. It uses a single inexpensive, easy to remove CR2025 battery. But here's the best part. You can also adjust any of the controls in software via the ADI-2 Remote app too.

With the ADI-2 Remote app your computer or iPad completely control the ADI-2 DAC FS. Look at all of the features. Most DAC's don't even dream of this functionality. You want mono for testing? No problem. You want to save several different EQ presets and be able to easily switch between them? Piece of cake. Change polarity or filter setting? CrossFeed, Treble, Bass, Loudness, balance, EQ + Bass/Treble? The list goes on and on. Nothing else gives you this control. But the real GEM is the loudness control which offers the same powerful bass thump at low volume levels as well as high - AND with automatic adjustment to taper EQ as volume increases. You decide the exact amount of treble/bass and what frequencies are targeted. It's totally unmatched control.

If all you did was look at ASR measurements you would have completely overlooked one of the best audio tools out there. Audio geeks who desire the absolute best sound from their system can only dream of these features. People who think EQ features found in the ADI-2 DAC FS can be matched with another DAC's with EQ are completely misinformed. Only those few that have hooked up the ADI-2 Remote software and immersed themselves in the Loudness controls will fully understand what they have been missing. It's crazy good!

But ignore this advice and go read more measurements if you never wish to be completely satisfied with your audio system.

 

[Julf]

If you rely totally on measurements and don't do your own homework you miss out on some of the best GEMS in audio.

This whole discussion has been about judging sound quality. Sure, extra features are a different discussion.

 

[ahofer]

If you rely totally on measurements and don't do your own homework you miss out on some of the best GEMS in audio.

Here's one example:
Look at the RME ADI-2 DAC FS in "SINAD" comparison charts. Based on those measurements an uninformed reader may conclude the "Topping D70 Pro" offers superior results to the RME ADI-2 DAC FS? The ADI-2 review doesn't go into features except to mention, "There is a built-in parametric EQ which can help you optimize your room or headphones. And on and on."
View attachment 412119

But if you do your homework you soon discover the ADI-2 DAC FS "Loudness" feature. The new ADI-2 Remote app puts it miles ahead of any other DAC on the entire list. You might think, How can that be? The reality is no other DAC with or without EQ offers the amazing functionality of the ADI-2 DAC. Not my MiniDSP Flex and certainly NOT any Topping DAC.

ADI-2 DAC FS Loudness Feature
Imagine being able to adjust the bass thump just the way you like it in real time while listening to your favorite music. Or having the ability to match the timbre of two distinctly different speakers? Or adjust a midrange that sounds somewhat distant to be clear and upfront - while never adding distortion? No other DAC offers a loudness control with customizable settings like the ADI-2. Many audio enthusiasts spend years looking for that special amp/DAC combo that offers them just the right sound, not knowing the ADI-2 can do it in nothing flat and save them thousands plus their time. Not only that but if their taste changes it's easy to alter the settings again or instantly compare to flat.

ADI-2 Remote
If you have used any Topping products you know how poor the dime store remote is that comes with even their $500+ units. Their remote range is limited and requires laser focus. You get a nice "SINAD" measurement but crappy remote usability. And if you bought RME ADI-2 you soon realize they continually upgrade your DAC functionality with free software updates while Topping is discontinuing your purchase as fast as possible, churning out other products that still don't match ADI-2 functionality.

What does a decent remote look like?
View attachment 412141
It fits in your hand comfortably and allows easy access to controls with at least a 45 degree angle range.
It easily increases volume or changes the source. And it has the option to turn EQ or the Loudness effect on/off at the touch of a button. It uses a single inexpensive, easy to remove CR2025 battery. But here's the best part. You can also adjust any of the controls in software via the ADI-2 Remote app too.

View attachment 412146

With the ADI-2 Remote app your computer or iPad completely control the ADI-2 DAC FS. Look at all of the features. Most DAC's don't even dream of this functionality. You want mono for testing? No problem. You want to save several different EQ presets and be able to easily switch between them? Piece of cake. Change polarity or filter setting? CrossFeed, Treble, Bass, Loudness, balance, EQ + Bass/Treble? The list goes on and on. Nothing else gives you this control. But the real GEM is the loudness control which offers the same powerful bass thump at low volume levels as well as high - AND with automatic adjustment to taper EQ as volume increases. You decide the exact amount of treble/bass and what frequencies are targeted. It's totally unmatched control.

If all you did was look at ASR measurements you would have completely overlooked one of the best audio tools out there. Audio geeks who desire the absolute best sound from their system can only dream of these features. People who think EQ features found in the ADI-2 DAC FS can be matched with another DAC's with EQ are completely misinformed. Only those few that have hooked up the ADI-2 Remote software and immersed themselves in the Loudness controls will fully understand what they have been missing. It's crazy good!

But ignore this advice and go read more measurements if you never wish to be completely satisfied with your audio system.

Dude, I own that DAC. All that information was available in the specs.

 

[amper42]

Many of the ADI-2 features I described were not available until later firmware updates. The new Remote came out in 2022 and the ADI-2 app was released in 2023. The app was transformational in offering ease of use. The product is continually evolving which is fantastic for owners.

The point I'm making is there is more to selecting audio gear than simply looking at measurements.
Cool features can be easily overlooked by a measurement style reviewer or may not even exist when they wrote the article. If you want to discover those rare gems more investigation is required. Buying a product from a company whose standard procedure is to continue development after the purchase, is a value few fully understand. Focusing solely on comparing measurements is almost as bad as not looking at measurements at all.

So when I read posts claiming all they need are measurements - it's clearly an over simplification. Finding the best gear always requires more effort.

 

[ahofer]

The point I'm making is there is more to selecting audio gear than simply looking at measurements.

We keep saying this is about sound and specifications, but you keep making this pedantic point. On to ignore with you.

 

[Fa11en.Universe]

I’ve had the C272 and currently have the M33 so they’re similar to your comparison. There won’t be any difference in sound quality or frequency response. The only difference that you may hear is less hiss when you put your ear to the tweeter on the C298 due to a lower noise floor.

The other reason to get the C298 is that it runs cooler and is more efficient than the 375 BEE. However, regarding sound quality differences, there will be none. The 375 BEE is an excellent amplifier with plenty of power.

If you’re itching to spend on hifi, I suggest looking at speakers, dirac live and room treatment in that order.

Thank you for this advise. It's what I hope to get by answering about C298.

 

[mike70]

Thank you for this advise. It's what I hope to get by answering about C298.

Is the same that many answered ... but with the arguments. Because we're a science forum and not audiophile religious that believe in magic amplifiers.You don't need to try to show us the way to answer or proceed, is very very clear how people think here.

I think you'll have much more of that "magic" answers (without any argument, only the mantra "I trust my ears") on audiophile forums.

All the answers you receive take the time of somebody trying to help you, I think they all deserve a little respect.

 

[Old_School_Brad]

If you rely totally on measurements and don't do your own homework you miss out on some of the best GEMS in audio.

But ignore this advice and go read more measurements if you never wish to be completely satisfied with your audio system.

No one was discussing the features; the recent conversation was always focused on the sound.

 

[nothingman]

So when I read posts claiming all they need are measurements - it's clearly an over simplification. Finding the best gear always requires more effort.

We are beating around the bush for three pages. This all started with you saying the C298 “is known for offering a bit of a dulled bass response.”

You got asked point-blank where and by whom it is known for that, and on what basis, and you didn’t reply, and then you started talking remote controls and setting up a straw-man about how everyone who opposes your made-up phony nonsense must be someone who insists that SINAD is the be-all-end-all measurement, which isn’t the case at all.

Again… where and by whom and on what basis is the C298 known for a “dulled” bass response? You’re talking about an amp with a proven record of flat response with no load depenency and an off-the-charts damping factor. Tell us what we don’t know, or just admit you make things up.

 

[amper42]

We are beating around the bush for three pages. This all started with you saying the C298 “is known for offering a bit of a dulled bass response.”

You got asked point-blank where and by whom it is known for that, and on what basis, and you didn’t reply, and then you started talking remote controls and setting up a straw-man about how everyone who opposes your made-up phony nonsense must be someone who insists that SINAD is the be-all-end-all measurement, which isn’t the case at all.

Again… where and by whom and on what basis is the C298 known for a “dulled” bass response? You’re talking about an amp with a proven record of flat response with no load depenency and an off-the-charts damping factor. Tell us what we don’t know, or just admit you make things up.

The C298 bass response was less dynamic than I was use to. I also noticed after Kalman Rubinson sold his C298 amps he commented how another amp he was trying was more lively. Atkinson at Stereophile offered a possibility for the difference but who knows?

If you enjoy the C298, that's great. However, it's not my cup of tea.

 

[Julf]

The C298 bass response was less dynamic than I was use to. I also noticed after Kalman Rubinson sold his C298 amps he commented how another amp he was trying was more lively.

"Lively" as having an uneven frequency response or adding distortion?

Atkinson at Stereophile offered a possibility for the difference but who knows?

For the enlightenment of those of us who refuse to support audiophile promotion magazines, maybe you could tell what his opinion was?

If you enjoy the C298, that's great. However, it's not my cup of tea.

We get that.

 

[nothingman]

The C298 bass response was less dynamic than I was use to. I also noticed after Kalman Rubinson sold his C298 amps he commented how another amp he was trying was more lively. Atkinson at Stereophile offered a possibility for the difference but who knows?

If you enjoy the C298, that's great. However, it's not my cup of tea.

What a preponderance of evidence.

We stand humbled by your subjective impressions, a Stereophile reviewer’s subjective impressions, and the musings of another Stereophile reviewer about what might explain the impressions of the first. That’s what I call consensus.

 

[Kal Rubinson]

I also noticed after Kalman Rubinson sold his C298 amps he commented how another amp he was trying was more lively.

"Lively" as having an uneven frequency response or adding distortion?

Nope. It is the infamously "boring" Benchmark AHB2.

 

[nothingman]

Nope. It is the infamously "boring" Benchmark AHB2.

Haha! So perfect it’s parody.

 

[ahofer]

Tapping the sign.

People at ASR tend to view good sound as (for electronics) fidelity to signal, and speaker output conforming to Toole and Olive's research. If you like the sound distorted, less accurate, or prefer some other speaker presentation, that's fine, but own it, don't pretend a) lesser fidelity is greater accuracy or b) there must be something wrong with these standards because of your personal preferences or c)you can hear something that can't be measured. There's no need to rationalize your tastes.

Most of us also believe that the way to test for *strictly audible* differences is by properly executed and level-matched double blind procedures, or through taking measurements and recording a result above audible thresholds. The fact that you noticed a difference outside of these conditions simply isn't evidence of a difference in signal quality at your ears. Even if it is a difference in the signal, as opposed to some sighted bias, it is likely to be a difference in amplitude rather than something more subtle.

Finally, all of the above mistakes are simply human. No human being is so "experienced" or "trained', or "sensitive" as to be able to make sighted comparisons objectively.

 

[Kal Rubinson]

Haha! So perfect it’s parody.

I think it's irony.

 

[bloodshoteyed]

I think it's irony.

the Benchmark or that i remember you going active?

 

[Kal Rubinson]

No. That the (or my) preferred amp is the one that so many carp at as "boring" in their efforts to deny its excellent performance.