NAD C298 Stereo Amplifier Review

[mike70]

Testing and measurements are a great way to establish a pool of devices to listen to. But if you depend only on measurements to decide what gear will be your favorite, you have significantly limited yourself. Once you listen to different devices you discover SINAD ratings don't matter much above certain levels.

EQ implementation in some devices introduces distortion while in others it does not. You don't see that difference in ASR measurements. You also don't have details on the range and quality of the remote control, extensive feature comparisons or expected longevity of the device. You have to discover those yourself. If your only measurement for value is a line on a graph you'll miss out on some of the most amazing gems in audio.

SINAD is the worst measure of audio quality. I mean, above 70 surely everything is good enough to your ears in your room. It's a measure of the engineering, and that's other stuff.

Measurements about frequency response, THD vs frequency, power needed, etc are measurements that helps you to choose the amplifier.

Don't reduce a complex situation only to SINAD results. You need to use your head, the ASR SINAD ranking is a guide to start.

 

[ahofer]

additional--- measurements might be needed to reflect the device characteristics.

Possibly, but we’d have to identify and establish the existence of those characteristics first. Let us know when you’ve got them.

 

[NHL99]

Possibly, but we’d have to identify and establish the existence of those characteristics first. Let us know when you’ve got them.

How does our complete list of measurements look like, to be able to beyond doubt state the merits of a device?

 

[mike70]

How does our complete list of measurements look like, to be able to beyond doubt state the merits of a device?

you need to read the literature about it, avalilable in ASR fixed posts, as an example.
as we get old, we understand that nobody can change your way of thinking if you're not open to that, so, do your homework ... if you're interested ... or continue thinking as you do actually.
no one loses anything, this is only a hobby.

 

[NHL99]

you need to read the literature about it, avalilable in ASR fixed posts, as an example.
as we get old, we understand that nobody can change your way of thinking if you're not open to that, so, do your homework ... if you're interested ... or continue thinking as you do actually.
no one loses anything, this is only a hobby.

Ackchyually, I've had several devices that measured phantastically on ASR, while not being my cup of tea. I've really tried to embrace their sound, but instead found other alternatives.

 

[xray]

How does our complete list of measurements look like, to be able to beyond doubt state the merits of a device?

What does your list of missing measurements look like?

 

[mike70]

Ackchyually, I've had several devices that measured phantastically on ASR, while not being my cup of tea. I've really tried to embrace their sound, but instead found other alternatives.

I don't talked about measurements, do you read the previous posts? I said read documentation, not measurements.

You made a blind listen with levelled gains?
Let me bet. No.

I repeat, you need to get some information first to rightly understand what we are saying. You can think a "raw" listening is everything you need to judge an audio component and we're wasting time or you can get what science says about it.

I don't want to waste your time

 

[ahofer]

How does our complete list of measurements look like, to be able to beyond doubt state the merits of a device?

For electronics? Excellent. You can buy on a complete set of measurements.
For speakers? Pretty good. You can triage things that don’t measure well, and try out the remainder (plus any unconventional designs like bi/multipolar, that you are curious about.

On the one hand it’s sort of no fun when so much mystery (or woo-woo) is removed, on the other hand it’s a relief to our time and wallets.

 

[jeffaegrim]

For electronics? Excellent. You can buy on a complete set of measurements.
For speakers? Pretty good. You can triage things that don’t measure well, and try out the remainder (plus any unconventional designs like bi/multipolar, that you are curious about.

On the one hand it’s sort of no fun when so much mystery (or woo-woo) is removed, on the other hand it’s a relief to our time and wallets.

^ this. Measurements tell you 100% of the things you need to know about an amp. Auditioning electronics is useless.

With speakers it’s 60-70%, to quote Amir.

 

[fcracer]

I've got NAD 375Bee and I like how it sounds.
I'm wondering, will I have overall sound improvement, I mean, more bass and low volume quality sound, If I use my 375Bee as pre amp and C298 power amp?
It should power Canton Ergo RC/L floorstadning speakers, 4 Ohm, 89db sensitivity.
NAD 375BEE:

• Continuous power (at distortion factor) - 4/8 Ohm: 2 x 150 Watt
• Peak power: 2 x 250 / 410 / 600 W IHF at 8 / 4 / 2 Ω.

NAD C298:

• 185W x 2 Rated Output Power into 8 Ohms
• 340W x 2 Rated Output Power into 4 Ohms
• Stereo Dynamic Power 260/490/570W @ 8/4/2 Ohms

I’ve had the C272 and currently have the M33 so they’re similar to your comparison. There won’t be any difference in sound quality or frequency response. The only difference that you may hear is less hiss when you put your ear to the tweeter on the C298 due to a lower noise floor.

The other reason to get the C298 is that it runs cooler and is more efficient than the 375 BEE. However, regarding sound quality differences, there will be none. The 375 BEE is an excellent amplifier with plenty of power.

If you’re itching to spend on hifi, I suggest looking at speakers, dirac live and room treatment in that order.

 

[jeffaegrim]

This is naive.
If you don't take the time to inspect the build, the quality of work and the features implemented before deciding to make the purchase you may regret it later. How much heat does the unit generate? How warm does it get after 2 hours of moderate to heavy use. What does it weigh? Will its design fit your use/space? How many watts does it use while idle and at normal background listening levels? How intuitive is the functional design of the unit? Does it make a pop sound in your speakers when turned on? Is the front panel LED distractingly bright? Will it sound any different than equipment you already own?

Making buying decisions solely on measurements is lazy and can easily leave important issues uncovered until after the sale. Measurements are a great starting point but don't let them fool you into believing there are no other considerations.

I don’t disagree with you, for the most part - that’s why I wrote „auditioning“, trying to convey that it’s listening to different amplifiers that I don’t find to be a productive endeavour. I, however, disagree with the last sentence that you sneaked into your first paragraph, because that’s the thing - with measurements at your disposal, it won’t sound any different. It can’t. Also, you know, a few of those questions are also answered by measurements.

(Omitting obvious exceptions like single ended designs)

 

[pinger]

This is naive.
If you don't take the time to inspect the build, the quality of work and the features implemented before deciding to make the purchase you may regret it later. How much heat does the unit generate? How warm does it get after 2 hours of moderate to heavy use. What does it weigh? Will its design fit your use/space? How many watts does it use while idle and at normal background listening levels? How intuitive is the functional design of the unit? Does it make a pop sound in your speakers when turned on? Is the front panel LED distractingly bright? Will it sound any different than equipment you already own?

Making buying decisions solely on measurements is lazy and can easily leave important issues uncovered until after the sale. Measurements are a great starting point but don't let them fool you into believing there are no other considerations.

"Will it sound any different than equipment you already own?" No

 

[Julf]

Ackchyually, I've had several devices that measured phantastically on ASR, while not being my cup of tea. I've really tried to embrace their sound, but instead found other alternatives.

Sure. Maybe you don't like accurate, faithful reproduction of the original signal, but prefer coloration or distortion, just like people who want to add ketchup and salt to everything, even in a michelin star restaurant.

 

[ahofer]

This is naive.
If you don't take the time to inspect the build, the quality of work and the features implemented before deciding to make the purchase you may regret it later. How much heat does the unit generate? How warm does it get after 2 hours of moderate to heavy use. What does it weigh? Will its design fit your use/space? How many watts does it use while idle and at normal background listening levels? How intuitive is the functional design of the unit? Does it make a pop sound in your speakers when turned on? Is the front panel LED distractingly bright? Will it sound any different than equipment you already own?

Making buying decisions solely on measurements is lazy and can easily leave important issues uncovered until after the sale. Measurements are a great starting point but don't let them fool you into believing there are no other considerations.

I’ve never not known the dimensions before buying. That tends to be in the specs.

Some fair points. A lot of what you are citing is very measurable (but isn’t often reviewed or advertised). And quality is generally not tested in consumer audio ecosystem. But these things are all possible to measure and test, and Amir often comments on heat, etc.

My point is that the full suite of measurements will tell you everything you need to know about a non-transducer component’s transparency in your system.

(update: I bolded the sentence above to point out the weird pedantry of several following posts)

 

[Old_School_Brad]

For electronics? Excellent. You can buy on a complete set of measurements.
For speakers? Pretty good. You can triage things that don’t measure well, and try out the remainder (plus any unconventional designs like bi/multipolar, that you are curious about.

On the one hand it’s sort of no fun when so much mystery (or woo-woo) is removed, on the other hand it’s a relief to our time and wallets.

I prefer a scientific approach over embracing mystery, as I value explanations for what I don’t understand. Audio is a well-studied field with little mystery left for those who explore it deeply enough. Subjective experiences, like preferences or perceived nuances in audio, often create an illusion of mystery, influenced by biases or limited understanding of the science. But it is just an illusion and not real mystery.

 

[Julf]

If you rely totally on measurements and don't do your own homework you miss out on some of the best GEMS in audio.

This whole discussion has been about judging sound quality. Sure, extra features are a different discussion.

 

[ahofer]

If you rely totally on measurements and don't do your own homework you miss out on some of the best GEMS in audio.

Here's one example:
Look at the RME ADI-2 DAC FS in "SINAD" comparison charts. Based on those measurements an uninformed reader may conclude the "Topping D70 Pro" offers superior results to the RME ADI-2 DAC FS? The ADI-2 review doesn't go into features except to mention, "There is a built-in parametric EQ which can help you optimize your room or headphones. And on and on."
View attachment 412119

But if you do your homework you soon discover the ADI-2 DAC FS "Loudness" feature. The new ADI-2 Remote app puts it miles ahead of any other DAC on the entire list. You might think, How can that be? The reality is no other DAC with or without EQ offers the amazing functionality of the ADI-2 DAC. Not my MiniDSP Flex and certainly NOT any Topping DAC.

ADI-2 DAC FS Loudness Feature
Imagine being able to adjust the bass thump just the way you like it in real time while listening to your favorite music. Or having the ability to match the timbre of two distinctly different speakers? Or adjust a midrange that sounds somewhat distant to be clear and upfront - while never adding distortion? No other DAC offers a loudness control with customizable settings like the ADI-2. Many audio enthusiasts spend years looking for that special amp/DAC combo that offers them just the right sound, not knowing the ADI-2 can do it in nothing flat and save them thousands plus their time. Not only that but if their taste changes it's easy to alter the settings again or instantly compare to flat.

ADI-2 Remote
If you have used any Topping products you know how poor the dime store remote is that comes with even their $500+ units. Their remote range is limited and requires laser focus. You get a nice "SINAD" measurement but crappy remote usability. And if you bought RME ADI-2 you soon realize they continually upgrade your DAC functionality with free software updates while Topping is discontinuing your purchase as fast as possible, churning out other products that still don't match ADI-2 functionality.

What does a decent remote look like?
View attachment 412141
It fits in your hand comfortably and allows easy access to controls with at least a 45 degree angle range.
It easily increases volume or changes the source. And it has the option to turn EQ or the Loudness effect on/off at the touch of a button. It uses a single inexpensive, easy to remove CR2025 battery. But here's the best part. You can also adjust any of the controls in software via the ADI-2 Remote app too.

View attachment 412146

With the ADI-2 Remote app your computer or iPad completely control the ADI-2 DAC FS. Look at all of the features. Most DAC's don't even dream of this functionality. You want mono for testing? No problem. You want to save several different EQ presets and be able to easily switch between them? Piece of cake. Change polarity or filter setting? CrossFeed, Treble, Bass, Loudness, balance, EQ + Bass/Treble? The list goes on and on. Nothing else gives you this control. But the real GEM is the loudness control which offers the same powerful bass thump at low volume levels as well as high - AND with automatic adjustment to taper EQ as volume increases. You decide the exact amount of treble/bass and what frequencies are targeted. It's totally unmatched control.

If all you did was look at ASR measurements you would have completely overlooked one of the best audio tools out there. Audio geeks who desire the absolute best sound from their system can only dream of these features. People who think EQ features found in the ADI-2 DAC FS can be matched with another DAC's with EQ are completely misinformed. Only those few that have hooked up the ADI-2 Remote software and immersed themselves in the Loudness controls will fully understand what they have been missing. It's crazy good!

But ignore this advice and go read more measurements if you never wish to be completely satisfied with your audio system.

Dude, I own that DAC. All that information was available in the specs.

 

[ahofer]

The point I'm making is there is more to selecting audio gear than simply looking at measurements.

We keep saying this is about sound and specifications, but you keep making this pedantic point. On to ignore with you.

 

[Fa11en.Universe]

I’ve had the C272 and currently have the M33 so they’re similar to your comparison. There won’t be any difference in sound quality or frequency response. The only difference that you may hear is less hiss when you put your ear to the tweeter on the C298 due to a lower noise floor.

The other reason to get the C298 is that it runs cooler and is more efficient than the 375 BEE. However, regarding sound quality differences, there will be none. The 375 BEE is an excellent amplifier with plenty of power.

If you’re itching to spend on hifi, I suggest looking at speakers, dirac live and room treatment in that order.

Thank you for this advise. It's what I hope to get by answering about C298.

 

[mike70]

Thank you for this advise. It's what I hope to get by answering about C298.

Is the same that many answered ... but with the arguments. Because we're a science forum and not audiophile religious that believe in magic amplifiers.You don't need to try to show us the way to answer or proceed, is very very clear how people think here.

I think you'll have much more of that "magic" answers (without any argument, only the mantra "I trust my ears") on audiophile forums.

All the answers you receive take the time of somebody trying to help you, I think they all deserve a little respect.