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Quirk Audio finished the upgrade. He's testing, then soaking it for 24 hours and final check before shipping. I will update with his test numbers.
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NAD 2200 Vintage Amplifier Review
- Thread starter amirm
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Exciting! What work was done on it?
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Same as OP.
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Received unit from Quirk Audio - well packed, good condition.
Sounds great.
It was $710 all in ($350 amp, $325 upgrade service; $35 shipping). Very pleased.
Sounds great.
It was $710 all in ($350 amp, $325 upgrade service; $35 shipping). Very pleased.
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I never thought a grey box would make me swoon! Nostalgia is a powerful thing.
Would you be willing to sell?
Where is quirk audio located? Thanks
I like the NAD styling. Very Bauhaus-y. It's plain - some would say sparse - but they put that dark green power button on there - somehow the dark matte grey is "set off" by the green - I've always liked the classic NAD look. I've got a NAD 7600 which I think works, haven't played with it in years. I'll have to drag it out.
Problem I've found with NAD gear of this era, they can end up sounding harsh, I think all the smaller electrolytics do not age well. And the CPU they used for remote control in their Monitor Series receivers does tend to have some reliability issues, but that only impacts remote control. And, yeah, the speaker relays do get funky over time.
Problem I've found with NAD gear of this era, they can end up sounding harsh, I think all the smaller electrolytics do not age well. And the CPU they used for remote control in their Monitor Series receivers does tend to have some reliability issues, but that only impacts remote control. And, yeah, the speaker relays do get funky over time.
That’s why Quirk Audio has a good thing going. When restored, some older NAD models can perform better than newer equipment, as measured by Amir.
The remote of my Monitor series 1600 preamp is 30 years old, but still going strong. I must be amongst the lucky!
DualTriode
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The speaker protection relays are the first thing to be replaced.
I have a friend with a 7400 receiver, also has romtoe issues. The receiver has remote issues. There is no real fix for this kind of thing, the chips are long out of production. But - it still works from the front panel! Have to get off the couch. Does that count as exercise?
It is my friend who has the romtoe issues, it is so bad he can't get off the couch and has to use a very long stick to work his NAD 7400. [ See
I can see how Quirk Audio could make a niche recapping these things, replacing the relays too. Touching up any solder joints that have failed, etc. But what a TEDIOUS job replacing all those electrolytics! $325 for that work seems like a bargain.
NAD's amps of the "Monitor Series" era and immediately after were GOOD AMPS. They're stable, too. I used an NAD 2400 to drive my ESL-57's for a while. It drove them just fine, without blowing any fuses or any other fussy behavior.
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restorer-john
Grand Contributor
Romtoe!
I bought two Quad power amplifiers from a sadly now deceased retired Quad NL service engineer: a 405-2 for 175 euro and a 606-2 for 350 euro. Both are traditional designs in the sense that they use only discrete components, and are therefore feasible refurbishing projects. This engineer had a very simple philosophy: replace just about all components, since good modern components are often much better quality and are still very cheap. So there is little point in testing the old ones. As he quite rightly said, I now have effectively brand new amplifiers. He only refurbished Quad gear, and with his decades of experience it did not take him too long. I would love to see these Quad models tested, of course, since the current dumping principle was quite a technical advance at the time.
DualTriode
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The speaker protection relays are the first thing to be replaced.
This Hi-Fi Classics article appears to be a reprint of the test results by Julian Hirsch in the old Stereo Review. I loved those test articles back in the day! I probably still have the original print article in my archived files.
http://www.hifi-classic.net/review/nad-2200-546.html
http://www.hifi-classic.net/review/nad-2200-546.html
I was wondering if you leave the old capacitors as on the protection relays they will degrade in time more an more so it will take more time to start up. Besides the startup time what are the consequences to leave it this way can it hurt the sound or other electronic components in the amplifier?.
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audio_tony
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I'm not sure I understand exactly what you mean but I'll try to answer based on what I think you are asking.
The ageing process of capacitors is largely based on a combination of heat exposure and time.
In the datasheet for a typical capacitor, the life expectancy will usually be cited as 'x' hours at 'y' degrees (F or C).
For larger power supply capacitors, the ripple currents will also need to be taken into consideration.
Therefore, in the same circuit (or rather on the same PCB), different capacitors will likely have differing lifespans, depending on exposure to heat and ripple effects, voltage across it etc.
Depending on the location of the capacitors in a circuit, there can be quite some considerable deterioration before it becomes audible.
A relay on the other hand, can last forever - but - relay contacts are typically destroyed by the interruption of a large current which will cause arcing on the contact surfaces, which in turn increases the contact resistance which in the case of an amplifier protection relay, will introduce distortion.
Worst case scenario is that the relay contacts can actually weld themselves together which of course then defeats the object of having one in the first place!
DualTriode
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Hello,
With experience I have noticed that power supply electrolytic capacitors may slowly deteriorate and let more and more hum and noise creep into the noise floor of the amplifier.
So while I was at it I replaced the six power supply capacitors along with the protection relay.
I believe that the worst of the performance issues were caused by the protection relay. The relay would click 4 or 5 times before it would make. Then on test there would be much higher distortion and noise on one of the two channels on the AP FFT. Then I would cycle the amplifier power off and on a time or two and the distortion and noise would clear up. The next time of cycling the power switch the relay would clatter a couple of times and the distortion and noise would reappear. The intermittent distortion and noise appeared to be more related to the protection relay than the power supply capacitors.
Still I replaced the capacitors while I had the PCB in my hand. Power up the amplifier the relay clicks only once and all is good. Fun too.
Thanks DT
Capacitors can leak, taking out anything that they leak upon. My question is that if you are in the AMP anyway, why would you not spend a few $'s on replacing everything that is needed at that time. Rather than wait, have them go bad (they don't always just have deteriorating sound), and possibly take out other things in the circuits as well). You save money, time anguish (worrying what if, in what way & when they are going to go bad) and money by doing it if you are already doing things inside an amp. If something is already 30-35 years old and you don't know if it was stored in the heat of an attic in Key West, Florida at some point, why would you take a chance? If it just quits, then you have to go through the time, effort & expense to fix it (if it can be fixed). But what if the amp catches fire & burns your place down? Because a few bucks worth of work wasn't done. Would it be worth the savings of even $100 if that happened.
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