My Topping EX5 review

[feng]

I just bought the Topping EX5 and got it today. here's my take.

A few month ago I emailed Topping's boss and JohnYang, asking for a device that is

1. combo unit with DAC XLR output and headphone out. For HP out, just use the L30 circuit.
2. low power. use switch power supply so it won't produce a lot of heat. sleep mode should not consume > 0.5W.
3. use single ES9038Q2M and achieve good jitter result
4. small. no desktop clutter, no cable management issue.
5. no MQA shit
6. no traditional ugly topping display.
7. has negative gain for IEM users.
8. <$400

and I can see EX5 implemented part of them. Thanks Topping.

Analysis:

1. Topping devices do not use a switch power supply that produce both +15V and -15V rails like their competitor SMSL does. So it makes them very hard to deliver -15V rail in a cheap way. On Premium devices they use premium component such as larger inductors/discrete DC-DC converters, etc. However on this cost saving device they can't. So they just use discrete charge pump followed by a tps5430 to step down into -12.3V.

No, this is not a measurement error. On the PCB I clearly see the feedback resistors are 9.1k and 1k so 1.221*10.1 = -12.33V. So you have a +15V / -12.33V rail for all op amps and headphone amplifier.

I'm not saying they are doing it wrong. but you see who the product targets. In the end you get what you paid for.

2. There's no premium grade component. You won't find things like OPA1612. All op amps in the signal path are LM4562.
Also, based on my measurement of XLR output and HP out, the power supply is a bit noisier than I expected.

3. The DAC chip is powered by, you guess it, an LM4562 op amp. No ES9311 (which is usually used as power supply chip in ESS designs) is used. The op amp also serve for bias input for LPF op amp. Usually to do a linear power supply a BJT is used with the op amp to supply more current. Not here. I'm quite surprised one piece of LM4562 has enough current to support two DAC chips + bias input.

Later I saw a PCB photo of Topping D90SE. the 9038Pro is powered by two pieces of OPA1612. Well, ok...

4. The signal path is interesting. works like the following:
1) DAC differential outputs to LPFs using LM4562.
2) differential outputs from the LPFs go into a LM4562 for summing
3) The LM4562 in stage 2 is used with a TPA6120A2 and form a nested feedback composite amplifier. The architecture is exactly the same as the Topping L30 one. It's just one chip for both L and R, while in L30 you have two chips.
4) There's another LM4562 which gets the HP out and inverts it.

Why this is interesting? Well. For the rear XLR output. it gets the XLR + phase signal from the class AB headphone amplifier discussed in 3). and the - phase signal is from the inverting signal of a regular op amp 4).
Also more interesting is there's no separate op amp for the RCA output. they share the same headphone amp output.

So for people using XLR output, the + and - signals are getting from chips for different purposes. Also for people who connect XLR and RCA simultaneously, remember they are powered by the same buffer.

In reality maybe it's fine --- After all TPA6120A2 has a lot of power, and can power RCA + XLR simultaneously. The capacitive load (if your speaker/preamp/amp has AC coupled input) may also be fine thanks to the zobel network. But just something you need to be aware of.

5. The last disappointment is from the Jitter performance. In my measurement jitter performance is quite poor. I wonder why topping was not applying their D10B into this product.

Overall Topping delivered a product in a good price tag. They cut a few corners and is able to sell it for $350 but can still get plenty of profit.

I would recommend them further improve this product by
1. using better power supply that can output +/- rails directly. this won't cost more.
2. reducing DAC chip to one. Save more cost.
3. killing MQA. Why would one need it?
4. solving the jitter issue.

I haven't done stability test though. Will report back after a month of using it.

Here's the PCB.

 

[AdamG]

I just bought the Topping EX5 and got it today. here's my take.

A few month ago I emailed Topping's boss and JohnYang, asking for a device that is

1. combo unit with DAC XLR output and headphone out. For HP out, just use the L30 circuit.
2. low power. use switch power supply so it won't produce a lot of heat. sleep mode should not consume > 0.5W.
3. use single ES9038Q2M and achieve good jitter result
4. small. no desktop clutter, no cable management issue.
5. no MQA shit
6. no traditional ugly topping display.
7. has negative gain for IEM users.
8. <$400

and I can see EX5 implemented part of them. Thanks Topping.

Analysis:

1. Topping devices do not use a switch power supply that produce both +15V and -15V rails like their competitor SMSL does. So it makes them very hard to deliver -15V rail in a cheap way. On Premium devices they use premium component such as larger inductors/discrete DC-DC converters, etc. However on this cost saving device they can't. So they just use discrete charge pump followed by a tps5430 to step down into -12.3V.

No, this is not a measurement error. On the PCB I clearly see the feedback resistors are 9.1k and 1k so 1.221*10.1 = -12.33V. So you have a +15V / -12.33V rail for all op amps and headphone amplifier.

I'm not saying they are doing it wrong. but you see who the product targets. In the end you get what you paid for.

2. There's no premium grade component. You won't find things like OPA1612. All op amps in the signal path are LM4562.
Also, based on my measurement of XLR output and HP out, the power supply is a bit noisier than I expected.

3. The DAC chip is powered by, you guess it, an LM4562 op amp. No ES9311 (which is usually used as power supply chip in ESS designs) is used. The op amp also serve for bias input for LPF op amp. Usually to do a linear power supply a BJT is used with the op amp to supply more current. Not here. I'm quite surprised one piece of LM4562 has enough current to support two DAC chips + bias input.

Later I saw a PCB photo of Topping D90SE. the 9038Pro is powered by two pieces of OPA1612. Well, ok...

4. The signal path is interesting. works like the following:
1) DAC differential outputs to LPFs using LM4562.
2) differential outputs from the LPFs go into a LM4562 for summing
3) The LM4562 in stage 2 is used with a TPA6120A2 and form a nested feedback composite amplifier. The architecture is exactly the same as the Topping L30 one. It's just one chip for both L and R, while in L30 you have two chips.
4) There's another LM4562 which gets the HP out and inverts it.

Why this is interesting? Well. For the rear XLR output. it gets the XLR + phase signal from the class AB headphone amplifier discussed in 3). and the - phase signal is from the inverting signal of a regular op amp 4).
Also more interesting is there's no separate op amp for the RCA output. they share the same headphone amp output.

So for people using XLR output, the + and - signals are getting from chips for different purposes. Also for people who connect XLR and RCA simultaneously, remember they are powered by the same buffer.

In reality maybe it's fine --- After all TPA6120A2 has a lot of power, and can power RCA + XLR simultaneously. The capacitive load (if your speaker/preamp/amp has AC coupled input) may also be fine thanks to the zobel network. But just something you need to be aware of.

5. The last disappointment is from the Jitter performance. In my measurement jitter performance is quite poor. I wonder why topping was not applying their D10B into this product.

Overall Topping delivered a product in a good price tag. They cut a few corners and is able to sell it for $350 but can still get plenty of profit.

I would recommend them further improve this product by
1. using better power supply that can output +/- rails directly. this won't cost more.
2. reducing DAC chip to one. Save more cost.
3. killing MQA. Why would one need it?
4. solving the jitter issue.

I haven't done stability test though. Will report back after a month of using it.

Here's the PCB.

View attachment 138477

I restored this post since some have expressed that this post was valuable to the conversation. Your welcome

 

[Veri]

I restored this post since some have expressed that this post was valuable to the conversation. Your welcome

In a way it's a bit "weird" to have someone post a detailed PCB board with annotation like that, before hardly anyone even has this product in their hands, no?? I do think the commentary and subsequent replies are interesting though

 

[Massimo]

OK, so maybe this thing is not optimised for Feng Shui ... but who cares? It has been tested by Amir and performs superbly!

 

[Kervel]

It performs superbly for an excellent price. "cutting corners" in components while not sacrificing performance is, in my book, the definition of great engineering!

 

[AdamG]

Fishing is Fun>………

 

[raindance]

There's nothing wrong with LM4562. They measure well.

They even use a dedicated low Z headphone amp chip rather than cheaping out and just sticking a 300 ohm resistor in series with an LM4562 and connecting to a headphone jack like most large manufacturers.

Don't see any issues.

 

[archerious]

Hey OP thank you for posting this review. I like seeing the PCB the way you showed it, helps educate dummies like myself.

That being said, could you test for SINAD or other measurements? Curious if any of the issues you pointed out will show up on them.

Cheers!

 

[alek19000]

For me ,I am admirer of TOPPING product, with a philosophy which is called Occam's Razor ：“Entities should not be multiplied unnecessarily ” or in Latin form:"Pluralitas non est ponenda sine necessitate "
And for the innovated part, NFCA, 2 dac chips for better SNR, they put efforts on the important parts.

 

[Chrise36]

Since you mention SMSL can you do an evaluation of the SH8S?

 

[Yorkshire Mouth]

The last disappointment is from the Jitter performance. In my measurement jitter performance is quite poor. I wonder why topping was not applying their D10B into this product.

From Amir's review and measurements:

Jitter measurements show some very low level unwanted signals but they are way under audibility threshold:

 

[Yorkshire Mouth]

I'm not saying they are doing it wrong. but you see who the product targets. In the end you get what you paid for.

Okay, I'm going to reverse that.

And I'm going to 'criticise' Amir here, but please bear in mind that I'm playing devil's advocate.

Amir continues to review DACs and headphone amps costing (very) low three figures, which appear to be transparent to the source.

I would say to Amir, start flagging this up. When you review a $1,000 DAC with 'better' results on paper, but where these 'improvements' are only on paper, and can't be heard, isn't it about time to criticise that, and say that bragging rights apart, you're wasting your money. If all you're interested in is sound quality, buy a $100 DAC and trouser the other $900. Doesn't that need saying? And repeating?

Now in reality, I don't think he should do that, or at least not in those terms/as harshly. But like others here, and getting back to the part of the OP I quoted at the top, I really don't care if it's done cheaply, as long as it's done well.

Yes, you get what you pay for. And if paying $350 gets you a DAC/amp transparent to the source, then I'm happy to both get and pay for that, and would be unhappy to pay any more.

 

[Sensation]

A month has passed.
I would like to know about the monthly usage news.

I'm curious about the overall rating.

 

[Jimbob54]

A month has passed.
I would like to know about the monthly usage news.

I'm curious about the overall rating.

You won't get it. Feng has left the building.

 

[Sensation]

난 그냥 토핑 EX5를 구입하고 오늘 그것을 얻었다. 여기 내 테이크입니다.

몇 달 전에 나는 토핑의 상사와 존양에게 이메일을 보내, 있는 장치를 요청

1. DAC XLR 출력 및 헤드폰 출력및 헤드폰 출력콤보 장치. HP 를 사용 하 여 L30 회로를 사용 하 여.
2. 저전력. 스위치 전원 공급 장치를 사용하므로 많은 열을 생성하지 않습니다. 절전 모드는 0.5W > 섭취해서는 안 됩니다.
3. 단일 ES9038Q2M을 사용하고 좋은 지터 결과를 달성
4. 작습니다. 데스크톱 혼란, 케이블 관리 문제 없음.
5. MQA 똥 없음
6. 전통적인 못생긴 토핑 디스플레이가 없습니다.
7. IEM 사용자에 대 한 부정적인 이득.
8. < $400

그리고 나는 EX5구현 된 부분의 일부를 볼 수 있습니다. 고마워요 토핑.

분석:

1. 토핑 장치는 경쟁사 인 SMSL과 마찬가지로 +15V 및 -15V 레일을 모두 생성하는 스위치 전원 공급 장치를 사용하지 않습니다. 따라서 저렴한 방법으로 -15V 레일을 제공하기가 매우 어렵습니다. 프리미엄 기기에서는 더 큰 인덕터/이산 DC-DC 컨버터 등과 같은 프리미엄 구성 요소를 사용합니다. 그러나 이 비용 절감 장치에서는 사용할 수 없습니다. 따라서 이산 충전 펌프를 사용하고 tps5430을 사용하여 -12.3V로 물러날 수 있습니다.

아니요, 이것은 측정 오류가 아닙니다. PCB에서 피드백 저항기는 9.1k와 1k이므로 1.221 *10.1 = -12.33V입니다. 그래서 당신은 모든 op 앰프 및 헤드폰 앰프에 대한 +15V / -12.33V 레일이 있습니다.

나는 그들이 잘못하고 있다고 말하는 것이 아니다. 그러나 제품이 대상을 볼 수 있습니다. 결국 당신은 당신이 지불 한 것을 얻을.

2. 프리미엄 등급 구성 요소는 없습니다. OPA1612와 같은 것을 찾을 수 없습니다. 신호 경로의 모든 op 앰프는 LM4562입니다.
또한 XLR 출력과 HP 출력을 측정한 결과 전원 공급 장치가 예상보다 약간 시요합니다.

3. DAC 칩에 의해 구동된다, 당신은 그것을 추측, LM4562 op 앰프. ES9311(일반적으로 ESS 설계의 전원 공급 칩으로 사용되는) 사용되지 않습니다. op 앰프는 또한 LPF op amp에 대한 바이어스 입력을 제공합니다. 일반적으로 선형 전원 공급 장치를 수행하려면 BJT가 더 많은 전류를 공급하기 위해 op amp와 함께 사용된다. 여기가 아님. 나는 LM4562의 한 조각이 두 개의 DAC 칩 + 바이어스 입력을 지원하기에 충분한 전류를 가지고 매우 놀랍습니다.

나중에 나는 토핑 D90SE의 PCB 사진을 보았다. 9038Pro는 OPA1612의 두 조각으로 구동된다. 글쎄, 좋아...

4. 신호 경로는 흥미롭습니다. 다음과 같은 작업을 수행합니다.
1) LM4562를 사용하여 LPF에 DAC 차동 출력.
2) LPF의 차동 출력은 합산을 위해 LM4562로 이동합니다.
3) The LM4562 in step 2 is used with the TPA6120A2 and is a nested feedback composite amplifier. The architecture is exactly the same as the topping L30. The L30 has two chips, while L and R are just one chip.
4) There is another LM4562 that pulls out hp and reverses it.

Why is this interesting? Well. For rear XLR output. 3) Get the XLR + phase signal from the class AB headphone amplifier discussed in . And -phase signal is from the inverted signal of the normal op amp 4).
There is also a separate op amp for more interesting RCA outputs. Share the same headphone amplifier output.

So for those who use XLR output + and - signals are being gained from chips for other purposes. Also remember that it is powered by the same buffer for those who connect XLR and RCA at the same time.

In reality maybe after all TPA6120A2 has a lot of power --- is fine, at the same time can power RCA + XLR power. Capacacacy loads (if the speaker/pream amp has AC-joined inputs) can also be fine thanks to the zobel network. But something you need to know.

5. The last disappointment is from the jitter performance. My measurement jitter performance is very poor. I wonder why the toppings didn't apply D10B to this product.

Overall the toppings delivered the product at a good price tag. They cut a few corners and can sell it for $350, but they can still make a lot of profit.

I would recommend that they improve this product further
1. +/- Use a better power supply that can output the rails directly. This doesn't cost more.
2. Reduce the DAC chip to one. Save more money.
3. Kill MQA. Why do you need it?
4. Fix the jitter problem.

However, you have not completed the stability test. Report back in a month.

Here's the PCB:

[attached = whole] 138477 [/attachment]

Is this an inside photo of topping ex5?
It's amazing.
Which opamp are you using?
opamp name

 

[Carlo2AC]

You won't get it. Feng has left the building.

Now that is strange, such nice post with even a image of the PCB to illustrate his points.. but just two messages and no response?

 

[Blew]

I've just got this and am testing in comparison to my old SMSL M500 v1.

I would recommend them further improve this product by
1. using better power supply that can output +/- rails directly. this won't cost more.

What would this do for us?

2. reducing DAC chip to one. Save more cost.
3. killing MQA. Why would one need it?

Because it sounds better than CD at 44.1KHz. That's nice to have for CD albums that haven't been remastered in hi-res. It's also well supported on Tidal.

4. solving the jitter issue.

It's inaudible though.

I haven't done stability test though. Will report back after a month of using it.

How did you go?

 

[Tortie]

Now that is strange, such nice post with even a image of the PCB to illustrate his points.. but just two messages and no response?

The censorship on this site is disconcerting. The Topping company is exercising undue influence over moderation, creating a chilling effect on discussion of their products.

 

[Blew]

The censorship on this site is disconcerting. The Topping company is exercising undue influence over moderation, creating a chilling effect on discussion of their products.

Where's the censorship?

As an update of my own experience with the EX5 above, I ended up returning it because it sounded horrible. Yes it measures well but it's terrible at transient notes, so music sounds flat and lifeless and many notes sound like crackly garbage. I believe most of the problem is in the amp side of the unit, so I'm personally staying away from Topping's NFCA based amplifiers in future. I bought a Singxer SA-1 headphones amp and am currently using it with a Topping E50 DAC. This is far more expensive than the EX5 but well worth it in my opinion. The DAC is good but I'm currently testing various power options for it before deciding whether to buy another one. I'm looking at other DAC options in the meantime too.

I'd like to hear how the new Topping DX5 compares, but I'm not willing to risk buying one to find out.

 

[MrBrainwash]

Yes it measures well but it's terrible at transient notes, so music sounds flat and lifeless and many notes sound like crackly garbage.

Do you made proper blind test (lvl matched)?