My suggestions to DAC manufacturers

[curiouspeter]

Now that most new DACs are already audibly transparent, perhaps they can focus on other qualities:

• The look. Current DACs are not ugly, but they can certainly look more interesting.
• A VERY big display. The sample rate and/or volume should be clearly visible. LCD screens are cheap.
• VU meters. Might as well add this. Just more software.
• A clock function. Might as well display the time in standby mode. We don't have VCRs to tell us the time anymore.

 

[Katji]

All I want is a DAC. If it is not like what I have now, a DAC in each speaker. Like "black box." Unless I needed a pre-amp, with a DAC included, to have multiple outputs.
Otherwise no volume control. I have one - no, 2, if you count the media player program - on the laptop already. And one on remote and one on the back of the "active" R speaker.

My SMSL M8 had a display - very small...and it was a few metres away. I never looked at it. Afaik it was doing what it was supposed to do with different formats, like when I got it.

Clocks, well, I have 2 - the phone, and the laptop...the phone is usually on. ...But that's another story. ...And I also have load-shedding, and lightning.

So...when/if I do need a DAC again, and for some reason not just the M8, it might be easier to choose, because if you exclude all the headphone amps in disguise as a DAC, that cuts out a lot.

DSP, yes, good place for it, integrated with the DAC. And the amplifiers in the speakers.

 

[RayDunzl]

• The look. Current DACs are not ugly, but they can certainly look more interesting.
• A VERY big display. The sample rate and/or volume should be clearly visible. LCD screens are cheap.
• VU meters. Might as well add this. Just more software.
• A clock function. Might as well display the time in standby mode. We don't have VCRs to tell us the time anymore

I don't look at it
So, other than the little indications it has, useful for the occasional WTF?, I won't see it
My meters are elsewhere
And I recently bought something for the wall I can easily see, billed as an Atomic Clock

 

[mansr]

Now that most new DACs are already audibly transparent, perhaps they can focus on other qualities:

• The look. Current DACs are not ugly, but they can certainly look more interesting.
• A VERY big display. The sample rate and/or volume should be clearly visible. LCD screens are cheap.
• VU meters. Might as well add this. Just more software.
• A clock function. Might as well display the time in standby mode. We don't have VCRs to tell us the time anymore.

I want mine to make toast. A built-in beer fridge would be nice too.

 

[RayDunzl]

I want mine to make toast.

I'd talk to Kenwood.

Maybe they'll make one that takes bread or CD.

 

[Katji]

^^ Smart fridge? If you don't pay for the Pro version, monthly fee, you'll have to see ads when you open it.

 

[curiouspeter]

All I want is a DAC. If it is not like what I have now, a DAC in each speaker. Like "black box." Unless I needed a pre-amp, with a DAC included, to have multiple outputs.
Otherwise no volume control. I have one - no, 2, if you count the media player program - on the laptop already. And one on remote and one on the back of the "active" R speaker.

My SMSL M8 had a display - very small...and it was a few metres away. I never looked at it. Afaik it was doing what it was supposed to do with different formats, like when I got it.

Clocks, well, I have 2 - the phone, and the laptop...the phone is usually on. ...But that's another story. ...And I also have load-shedding, and lightning.

So...when/if I do need a DAC again, and for some reason not just the M8, it might be easier to choose, because if you exclude all the headphone amps in disguise as a DAC, that cuts out a lot.

DSP, yes, good place for it, integrated with the DAC. And the amplifiers in the speakers.

Yeah, I also prefer pure DACs. Otherwise I have to check if the line out actually bypasses the pre-amp section.

 

[jcadduono]

I really just want a large adjustable brightness range and auto dim tuning (wait time and dim %) on the LCDs. I never turn my DAC off and use it in my bedroom and it can be a little annoying when I'm trying to sleep. Covering the screen with black electrical tape has worked well for my D90 though!

 

[Jas0_0]

I want DSP. Confused why so few products offer this - or when they do, offer so little DSP capability.

 

[mansr]

Do you guys have any idea how much the things you're asking for would increase the cost of the DAC? The BOM cost alone would likely at least triple, and engineering effort would be increased much more than that. For a device produced in moderate volumes, you're probably looking at a retail price increase of 5-10 times.

 

[curiouspeter]

Do you guys have any idea how much the things you're asking for would increase the cost of the DAC? The BOM cost alone would likely at least triple, and engineering effort would be increased much more than that. For a device produced in moderate volumes, you're probably looking at a retail price increase of 5-10 times.

The Modius is available for $199. I would not mind paying $599 if it has some cool-looking features like a large dot-matrix display and some functional heatsinks (Somehow I am always worried about heat).

When all DACs are basically transparent, the most important thing (other than usability and reliability) will be the appearance.

 

[KTN46]

Not sure any of this resonates with me as a consumer:

• As long as it fits where I want it to and lets me put things on it I couldn't care less what it looks like, a rectangular prism will do.
• My computer has a display, my phone is a display, my laptop is a display. Why would I want to pay for another?
• If I can switch it off when its not in use I will. I can check the time by pulling my phone out of my pocket or glancing at the bottom right of my screen.

We don't need more flashy products with features people will quickly forget about. Audio to me isn't a visual statement. I bought the Schiit Modius because it measured transparently, had balanced outputs and 4 inputs for $200. Asides from USB-C and a cheaper pricetag I'm not sure I could ask for more.

 

[curiouspeter]

Not sure any of this resonates with me as a consumer:

• As long as it fits where I want it to and lets me put things on it I couldn't care less what it looks like, a rectangular prism will do.
• My computer has a display, my phone is a display, my laptop is a display. Why would I want to pay for another?
• If I can switch it off when its not in use I will. I can check the time by pulling my phone out of my pocket or glancing at the bottom right of my screen.

We don't need more flashy products with features people will quickly forget about. Audio to me isn't a visual statement. I bought the Schiit Modius because it measured transparently, had balanced outputs and 4 inputs for $200. Asides from USB-C and a cheaper pricetag I'm not sure I could ask for more.

I did seriously consider the Modius before ordering the Gustard X16. I too wish it had USB-C or at least USB Type B. Micro USB is not that robust. However, a desktop DAC is not something you plug and unplug all the time, so I think it is fine nonetheless. The 24/192 limit is more concerning. Not that I can hear the difference, but I don't want Roon to do more work downsampling from DSD/DXD files. (I run Roon Core out of a NAS and it is a bit short on processing power.)

I still get much enjoyment from good industrial design. (I hate Apple though.) A design that communicates its function makes me happy.

 

[jhaider]

Do you guys have any idea how much the things you're asking for would increase the cost of the DAC? The BOM cost alone would likely at least triple, and engineering effort would be increased much more than that. For a device produced in moderate volumes, you're probably looking at a retail price increase of 5-10 times.

Quedlix makes a USB-C DAC and headphone amp with all the Bluetooth and a useful 2 channel DSP controlled over Bluetooth by their own app and UI (serviceable but not excellent) and they sell it for about $100.

So I don’t think your premise is correct.

 

[Katji]

This is a visual statement I could not accept:

(Seen today. (£8,499)

 

[threni]

This is a visual statement I could not accept:

View attachment 112272
(Seen today. (£8,499)

Hifi is like cars - the more they cost, the more ugly they are.

 

[JeffS7444]

If I were to replace my Benchmark DAC2HGC, it might be with an RME's ADI-2 "Black Edition" because the latter adds a bunch of DSP features (equalization, headphone crossfeed) which could make an audible difference.

 

[mansr]

Quedlix makes a USB-C DAC and headphone amp with all the Bluetooth and a useful 2 channel DSP controlled over Bluetooth by their own app and UI (serviceable but not excellent) and they sell it for about $100.

So I don’t think your premise is correct.

That device is uses a Qualcomm chip with Bluetooth and audio DSP along with an ESS combined DAC and headphone driver. Volume pricing for these parts is not public, but based on available information it ought to be around $5-8 apiece. With a BOM in the $15-20 range, their margins are already quite slim. A "VERY big display" as requested costs $20 or so (price for a 5" WVGA colour LCD). A more capable DSP is another $10.

I think my estimate is quite reasonable.

 

[curiouspeter]

If I were to replace my Benchmark DAC2HGC, it might be with an RME's ADI-2 "Black Edition" because the latter adds a bunch of DSP features (equalization, headphone crossfeed) which could make an audible difference.

I now do DSP in Roon. It will do crossfeed as well.

The histogram display is nice though.

 

[jhaider]

That device is uses a Qualcomm chip with Bluetooth and audio DSP along with an ESS combined DAC and headphone driver. Volume pricing for these parts is not public, but based on available information it ought to be around $5-8 apiece. With a BOM in the $15-20 range, their margins are already quite slim. A "VERY big display" as requested costs $20 or so (price for a 5" WVGA colour LCD). A more capable DSP is another $10.

I think my estimate is quite reasonable.

I’m not sure “more capable” DSP is required in a 2 channel device (as opposed to a multichannel controller. More output without relying on bridged (sorry “balanced”) amps would be nice I guess. Crossfeed would make it the best product in its market at any price, but at $100 fair enough to exclude.

Generally, I see the DAC (and headphone amp!) market as having 3 real tiers.

1a) cheap basic single function stuff
1b) slightly less cheap basic single function stuff with upgraded I/O (balanced outs for example)

these components are for people feeding them from a multichannel controller (eg MiniDSP SHD) or who just need sound and don’t care as much about fidelity.

2) modern 2-channel audio component: DSP EQ, Airplay and flexible bass management if a non-portable product, possibly automated room correction, ideally crossfeed if headphone-targeted, etc.

These are useful standalone products for listeners who wish to have the opportunity to make real improvements to their audio reproduction. There should be more of them.

3) pointless (priced above the basic stuff, lacking modern features)

I guess people buy these (Amir has measured a bunch) but I have no idea why.