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My speakers sound better than my headphones...

Frank Dernie

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Homo sapiens, the first modern humans, evolved from their early hominid predecessors between 200,000 and 300,000 years ago.
Alexander Graham Bell patented his first electric loudspeaker (capable of reproducing intelligible speech) as part of his telephone in 1876.

There is nothing "natural" about listening to speakers or headphones. Natural is a sloppy meaningless word in this context. What we should say is "comfortable" or "what I'm used to".
:facepalm:
OK something stuck in your ears or clamped over them is un-natural duh!
 

Frank Dernie

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Homo sapiens, the first modern humans, evolved from their early hominid predecessors between 200,000 and 300,000 years ago.
Yes and they sensed pressure fluctuations in the air all around them.
Alexander Graham Bell patented his first electric loudspeaker
Allowing people to listen to reproduced speech (and then music) in a way that was natural to humans.
 

CrankyRat

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Definition of artificial: "made or produced by human beings rather than occurring naturally, especially as a copy of something natural."

By definition speakers, headphones, and IEMs are artificial. Listening to acoustic music in person is natural. Now nothing wrong with artificial. We rely on artificial because frequently it enhances what is "natural". The fact you don't like something on your head or in your ears is your limitation.

Franky most audio arguments are not about preferences but about personal limitations. We don't like this, we don't like that. Glass half empty kind of thinking.
 

Tim Link

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I find loudspeakers to be fundamentally superior for music enjoyment even at low listening levels. The sense of an event happening in the room rather than right at the ears makes a huge difference for me. Nevertheless, I still do enjoy headphones quite a bit. I've recently got into equalizing them based on review measurements that have become available. More bass and a smoother treble makes them very easy to listen to for long periods, which I do late in the evening when I need to quit bothering people with my speakers.
 

Galliardist

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Definition of artificial: "made or produced by human beings rather than occurring naturally, especially as a copy of something natural."

By definition speakers, headphones, and IEMs are artificial. Listening to acoustic music in person is natural. Now nothing wrong with artificial. We rely on artificial because frequently it enhances what is "natural". The fact you don't like something on your head or in your ears is your limitation.

Franky most audio arguments are not about preferences but about personal limitations. We don't like this, we don't like that. Glass half empty kind of thinking.
By the same definition, acoustic musical instruments are artificial. Music itself is a process organised by and for humans and artificial.When I see the word "natural" turn up anywhere audio, and often in music itself, it usually indicates just another piece of BS.

Mind you, nature gets us in the end, limiting what can be performed, and most importantly for our purposes here, in what happens once the sounds get into our ears... and even more so, into our heads.
 

escksu

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IMHO, speakers will always be superior compared to headphones. This is more of a physical limitation. Headphones usually have just 1 set of drivers for the entire audible range but speakers have more. Power is limited for headphones as well. No doubt you can use EQ to off-set things a little, but no EQ can overcome physical limitations.
 

JWAmerica

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IMHO, speakers will always be superior compared to headphones. This is more of a physical limitation. Headphones usually have just 1 set of drivers for the entire audible range but speakers have more. Power is limited for headphones as well. No doubt you can use EQ to off-set things a little, but no EQ can overcome physical limitations.
Keep in mind that IEMs have transitioned to multiple driver configurations.
 

Galliardist

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IMHO, speakers will always be superior compared to headphones. This is more of a physical limitation. Headphones usually have just 1 set of drivers for the entire audible range but speakers have more. Power is limited for headphones as well. No doubt you can use EQ to off-set things a little, but no EQ can overcome physical limitations.
I prefer speakers, but what you say doesn't appear to hold. The one driver in a typical set of headphones can cope admirably with the excursions and frequencies we want, and there plenty of headphone measurements on this site to see that that holds. There's also no problem with power, as the numbers of headphone users that have ended up with hearing impairment from them demonstrates.
 

escksu

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I prefer speakers, but what you say doesn't appear to hold. The one driver in a typical set of headphones can cope admirably with the excursions and frequencies we want, and there plenty of headphone measurements on this site to see that that holds. There's also no problem with power, as the numbers of headphone users that have ended up with hearing impairment from them demonstrates.

Of course 1 driver can do the job. We have plenty of low cost USB powered speakers with just 1 driver. They sound surprisingly good as well.
 

Galliardist

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Of course 1 driver is able to do the job, but how well it can do is another thing. See the freqeuncy response curve and distortion at low frequencies. Many peakers (esp. bookshelves) also have issues at low frequencies so subs are needed. You can only boost low frequencies in headphones through EQ. But there is a limitation on how much you can add without distortion going through the roof.

We also have single driver speakers. Plenty of them around.

The job of a single driver speaker is much harder than that of a single driver headphone. If you go through the headphone reviews here you will find plenty with single driver that do have distortion issues at low frequencies, but also a fair few with very good measurements that do take EQ or already have sufficient bass for some or all potential users.

I doubt anyone will ever need or want the equivalent of a subwoofer for headphones...
 

Spkrdctr

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I've tried a ton of headphones over the last few years. Absolutely none of them gave me the enjoyment of a pair of good floorstandings at 90-100dB from LP, with holographic soundstage, along with bass shaking my chest.

Apple and Oranges...

90-100db? Yikes! I would start looking at hearing aids for later in life...........:)
 

Spkrdctr

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Well, that's because they don't live with my wife! If I play anything on my speakers above 80dB she will be yelling at me at 120dB. I'm one audiologist appointment away from a hearing aid.
I'm in the same boat. I turn it up when she is out of the apartment! 80db and she is saying it's too loud!
 

cinemakinoeye

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[…] By definition speakers, headphones, and IEMs are artificial. Listening to acoustic music in person is natural. Now nothing wrong with artificial. We rely on artificial because frequently it enhances what is "natural". […]
Perhaps another way of thinking about this difference would be in terms of mediated/unmediated rather than unnatural/natural. Even a live performance may incorporate some forms of mediation, e.g. a guitar amplifier. Different forms of mediation (e.g. speakers vs. headphones) lead to different experiences, since the medium is inextricably part of the message, the two are locked in a dance with the other.
 

Tim Link

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IMHO, speakers will always be superior compared to headphones. This is more of a physical limitation. Headphones usually have just 1 set of drivers for the entire audible range but speakers have more. Power is limited for headphones as well. No doubt you can use EQ to off-set things a little, but no EQ can overcome physical limitations.
My biggest issue with headphones is the lack of HRTF. I've been intrigued with head tracking and HRTF simulation from the likes of Smyth Realizer but I've never actually tried it.
 

weesch

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For a curious cat, what is the best way to find out how and why?

Here are some of the specifics...
  • Headphones: NAS (Roon Core) -> iMac (Roon Bridge) -> iFi NEO iDSD (DAC and Amp) -> Sennheiser HD660S
  • Speakers: NAS (Roon Core) -> Pi 4 (RoPieee) -> Gustard X16 (DAC) -> Teac AX-505 (Amp) -> PSB Alpha T20
  • Listening Material: Frédéric (Mazurkas, Nocturnes, Waltzes) - DSD64
To me, the strings of the harp sound more natural on the speakers. I have always thought those PSBs are the weakest link in my system.

I doubt a DAC can make much difference. Could it be that strings just sound better on speakers?

I cannot do a volume-matched test because the output devices are so different. Obviously, I cannot do a blind test because I can easily feel if I am wearing something on my head.

Actually, I usually have the volume set such that my headphones sound louder. In fact, I can hear more recording imperfections on my headphones. Very strange.
hi
just try this headphone
and this speaker
but none of this system is able to do mastering well...
for mastering i use a multimedia speaker with a bass amp and satellite like this
https://www.01net.com/tests/altec-lansing-vs2421-fiche-technique-4699.html
( that I found in the trash )
but this one seems to be really great :
why ? because i make music ....and made many error when i compose ....this multimedia speaker show me the limits without burning my hear....
after i see the default with the beyer dt 150... and finally the genelec and return at the end to the altec to see if all it's right...
just take little speaker because sound is expodential and for see the default you need little speaker....
if i compare to vision
litlle speaker is a telescope....(you see far)
and big speaker and headphone is a microscope....(you see near)
song made with this system
best
regards
weesch
 
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